[Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting

[Christine Dutton]

I do know some organizations that line up the clients for the consultants.
I will be reaching out to them today.
The other challenge with the carpenter position is that it is day to day
work as opposed to special projects.
That is another differentiating factor.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Bruce Hooke <bghooke at att.net> wrote:

> To me it seems like a key question is once the contractors have been
> trained who will be setting up the training sessions they will be running.
> Will these contractors be going out and lining up their own clients,
> scheduling the work themelves, and setting their own rates; or will the
> business be lining up the clients, setting the rates and so on? If the
> latter, even in part, it seems to me the arguement for these being
> independant contractors gets a lot harder to make. If that's the path this
> business is trying to follow I'd say it's time to bring in the lawyers
> since the business will be skating close to the edge and needs to make sure
> they are doing everything exactly right. If the former then it seems to me
> they should be on safer ground, especially if the consultants also earn
> money doing other things that are not at all connected to your client.
> That's one of the things that addresses the carpenter situation addressed
> by Don. If you have a carpenter who works full time working on your house
> and never does work for anyone else then even if that carpenter is "not
> closely supervised" they are still likely to be deemed an employee. On the
> other hand, even if you hover over the carpenter while he rebuilds your
> bathroom, if next week he's off working on someone else's kitchen and a
> month later he's building someone a garage then he's pretty clearly a
> contractor.
> Bruce
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net [mailto:
> hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net] *On Behalf Of *Christine
> Dutton
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 9:32 AM
> *To:* Don Lesser; Christine Dutton
> *Cc:* Hidden-Tech Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting
>
> These are exactly some of the things I've been thinking. We will finalize
> our decision after seeking legal advisement. Thank you!
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Don Lesser <dlesser at ptraining.com> wrote:
>
>> I have always found the language of “not closely supervised” as a
>> standard for contractors to be stupid. If I hire a contractor to rebuild a
>> bathroom or teach a particular class or to program a specific module, I
>> have defined the job. I don’t want a new living room, a different class, or
>> a phone app instead of an SQL database. So I am telling the contractor what
>> to do which seems in conflict with the rules. I don’t tell a carpenter
>> which hammer to use or how to install a stud. I do tell a trainer what
>> materials to use, which examples to use, and my standards for professional
>> behavior. I do tell a consultant to use the development platform the client
>> uses since no client will, for example, allow us to use MS Access instead
>> of Crystal Reports, which they use for all other reporting.
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, informally, if you hire a contractor, train them in your
>> materials, and then let them teach it, it seems you have enough of a
>> hands-off relationship for a 1099. Most of the contracting agencies I know
>> of, however, have gone to a W2 without benefits because it protects them.
>> The exception is if the contractor has a corporation. (Not sure about LLCs,
>> partnerships, etc.) In this case, the agencies are OK paying the
>> corporation and letting the contractor take care of taxes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another potential issue is that all contractors are required to have
>> Workman’s Comp insurance for themselves. As a corporation, I have been
>> required to pay for Workman’s Comp insurance for all my contractors just as
>> though they were employees. Only one contractor I know of actually has WC
>> insurance. I am not addressing telling untruths to your insurance agency.
>> That is between you and them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Decide what will let you sleep better and check with your accountant to
>> be sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Lesser
>>
>> Pioneer Training, Inc
>>
>> 139B Damon Road, Ste 8
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=139B+Damon+Road,+Ste+8+Northampton,+MA+01060+(413&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Northampton, MA 01060
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=139B+Damon+Road,+Ste+8+Northampton,+MA+01060+(413&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> (413) 387-1040 <(413)%20387-1040>
>>
>> dlesser at ptraining.com
>>
>> www.ptraining.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net
>> <hidden-discuss-bounces at listshidden-tech.net> [mailto:
>> hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-technet
>> <hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net>] *On Behalf Of *Christine
>> Dutton
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 7:50 AM
>> *To:* Christine Dutton <cgdutton7 at gmail.com>; Hidden-Tech Listserv <
>> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
>> *Subject:* [Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Hidden Tech Folks!
>>
>> I have a question regarding consulting status with organizations. I have
>> a client who is forming their business with a focus on delivering diversity
>> workshops. The client would like to work with consultants, but the
>> consultants will be required to train on workshop delivery. Beyond the
>> training, the trainers will not be closely supervised. Please let me know
>> if you have worked as a consultant for an organization with this type of
>> arrangement. It would be great if you could share the name of the
>> organization you were working with. My goal is to ensure that the
>> consultancy arrangement is designed within legal requirements.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Christine
>>
>
>
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