[Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting

[Bruce Hooke]

To me it seems like a key question is once the contractors have been trained
who will be setting up the training sessions they will be running. Will
these contractors be going out and lining up their own clients, scheduling
the work themelves, and setting their own rates; or will the business be
lining up the clients, setting the rates and so on? If the latter, even in
part, it seems to me the arguement for these being independant contractors
gets a lot harder to make. If that's the path this business is trying to
follow I'd say it's time to bring in the lawyers since the business will be
skating close to the edge and needs to make sure they are doing everything
exactly right. If the former then it seems to me they should be on safer
ground, especially if the consultants also earn money doing other things
that are not at all connected to your client. That's one of the things that
addresses the carpenter situation addressed by Don. If you have a carpenter
who works full time working on your house and never does work for anyone
else then even if that carpenter is "not closely supervised" they are still
likely to be deemed an employee. On the other hand, even if you hover over
the carpenter while he rebuilds your bathroom, if next week he's off working
on someone else's kitchen and a month later he's building someone a garage
then he's pretty clearly a contractor.
Bruce

  _____  

From: hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net
[mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net] On Behalf Of Christine
Dutton
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:32 AM
To: Don Lesser; Christine Dutton
Cc: Hidden-Tech Listserv
Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting


These are exactly some of the things I've been thinking. We will finalize
our decision after seeking legal advisement. Thank you!

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Don Lesser <dlesser at ptraining.com> wrote:


I have always found the language of "not closely supervised" as a standard
for contractors to be stupid. If I hire a contractor to rebuild a bathroom
or teach a particular class or to program a specific module, I have defined
the job. I don't want a new living room, a different class, or a phone app
instead of an SQL database. So I am telling the contractor what to do which
seems in conflict with the rules. I don't tell a carpenter which hammer to
use or how to install a stud. I do tell a trainer what materials to use,
which examples to use, and my standards for professional behavior. I do tell
a consultant to use the development platform the client uses since no client
will, for example, allow us to use MS Access instead of Crystal Reports,
which they use for all other reporting.

 

That said, informally, if you hire a contractor, train them in your
materials, and then let them teach it, it seems you have enough of a
hands-off relationship for a 1099. Most of the contracting agencies I know
of, however, have gone to a W2 without benefits because it protects them.
The exception is if the contractor has a corporation. (Not sure about LLCs,
partnerships, etc.) In this case, the agencies are OK paying the corporation
and letting the contractor take care of taxes.

 

Another potential issue is that all contractors are required to have
Workman's Comp insurance for themselves. As a corporation, I have been
required to pay for Workman's Comp insurance for all my contractors just as
though they were employees. Only one contractor I know of actually has WC
insurance. I am not addressing telling untruths to your insurance agency.
That is between you and them. 

 

Decide what will let you sleep better and check with your accountant to be
sure. 

 

Don Lesser

Pioneer Training, Inc

139B
<https://maps.google.com/?q=139B+Damon+Road,+Ste+8+Northampton,+MA+01060+(41
3&entry=gmail&source=g> Damon Road, Ste 8

Northampton,
<https://maps.google.com/?q=139B+Damon+Road,+Ste+8+Northampton,+MA+01060+(41
3&entry=gmail&source=g> MA 01060

(413)  <tel:(413)%20387-1040> 387-1040

 <mailto:dlesser at ptraining.com> dlesser at ptraining.com

 <http://www.ptraining.com/> www.ptraining.com

 

From: hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.
<mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces at listshidden-tech.net> hidden-tech.net
[mailto:hidden-discuss-
<mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net>
bounces at lists.hidden-technet] On Behalf Of Christine Dutton
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:50 AM
To: Christine Dutton <cgdutton7 at gmail.com>; Hidden-Tech Listserv
<hidden-discuss at lists.hidden- <mailto:hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
tech.net>
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Question Regarding Consulting

 

Hi Hidden Tech Folks!

I have a question regarding consulting status with organizations. I have a
client who is forming their business with a focus on delivering diversity
workshops. The client would like to work with consultants, but the
consultants will be required to train on workshop delivery. Beyond the
training, the trainers will not be closely supervised. Please let me know if
you have worked as a consultant for an organization with this type of
arrangement. It would be great if you could share the name of the
organization you were working with. My goal is to ensure that the
consultancy arrangement is designed within legal requirements. 

Thank you!

Christine 



 
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