[Hidden-tech] Computer for kids - how to convert

Aaron E-J the at otherrealm.org
Wed Apr 15 19:54:41 UTC 2020 

The most important thing is that the kids learn the full details on 
sensitive or potentially dangerous topics before they are presented with 
the need to make a decision on them.  I think exposing kids to sensitive 
topics in a controlled setting, before they are fully aware of their 
ramifications, is important.  Then explain the dangers in such a way 
that makes them take ownership of their safety as equals, so that they 
see the dangers as dangers and not arbitrary restrictions.  This will 
imprint a positive feeling to being safe.  Restricting access to things 
and then reprimanding the kid when they do wrong is very 
counterproductive, but it is still the de facto approach in many schools🤔.

Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
http://otherrealm.org
http://theotherrealm.org (Blog)

On 2020-04-15 2:41 PM, Sam McClellan via Hidden-discuss wrote:
> Now that we're throwing cents around, I don't think it's about one way 
> or the other is better, I think it's about appropriateness and the 
> situation and it's really the parents' and the educators' call. 
> Computers and internet devices are portals to information and 
> socialization in our culture and our world, the good and the bad. I 
> like your word, Aaron, "curate" and I would add the word "titrate". 
> Oversee, make things available as appropriate and as they grow, but 
> keep good boundaries. Boundaries are love for kids. Unregulated and 
> unsupervised access to the raw unbridled web too early and too quickly 
> can really mess with kids, just as with media, but if you never let 
> them explore it they won't learn and develop skills and calluses, and 
> the "off limits" effect usually makes it more desirable to explore the 
> darker stuff.
>
> To that end, I think starting with a "walled garden" OS like Chrome OS 
> for young or inexperienced kids is usually a great idea, then expand 
> as they grow. And there's the support issue, as Matt says, which would 
> be a huge concern if you're going to be managing a dozen kid's PC's.
>
> Sam
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sam McClellan
> *Itabix, Inc*
> /One place for all things Web/
> sam at itabix.com
> https://itabix.com
> Main - 413.587.4600
> Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249)
>
> On 4/15/2020 1:28 PM, Aaron E-J via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>> I second Stephen's points, it is important that things are out in the 
>> open.  Curate the way your kids learn hard topics, don't prevent them 
>> from learning them.
>> Aaron E-J
>> The Other Realm LLC
>> http://otherrealm.org
>> http://theotherrealm.org  (Blog)
>> On 2020-04-15 12:43 PM, Stephen Michel via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>> To me, these are are downsides:
>>>
>>>> 2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard Linux 
>>>> installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted
>>>> 3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the Internet.
>>>
>>> Being hard to tinker with makes locked-down devices a poor choice 
>>> for encouraging intellectual curiosity. Open devices teach that if 
>>> you don't like your environment, you can work to change it. I think 
>>> that's an important life lesson, not just in computers; among other 
>>> things, it's important for a functioning democracy.
>>>
>>> This may be more controversial, but I also don't believe in trying 
>>> to prevent humans, however small, from ever engaging with "bad 
>>> stuff". I don't think technical barriers are a good substitute for 
>>> open communication and trust. Better to talk about these topics, 
>>> where you have control over the framing, than wait for children to 
>>> discover them in a different context. Now, these conversation can 
>>> happen too soon, so I'm not opposed to weak parental controls. But, 
>>> by the time a kid has figured out how to bypass those controls, 
>>> they're probably also ready for that conversation. Finally, figuring 
>>> out how to bypass the controls involves a fair amount of learning — 
>>> an excellent educational outcome, even if not ideal from other 
>>> perspectives.
>>>
>>> So, I'm also in favor of installing a full linux distro. If these 
>>> computers will belong to the kids permanently, I might even suggest 
>>> providing the older kids with a small flash drive (4-8GB) and a 
>>> suggestion to try out different distributions.
>>> --
>>> I try to write short, functional emails.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:19, Rich at OTN via Hidden-discuss 
>>> <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Interesting comparison.
>>>> Major notes about ChromeOS
>>>>          1) The publizied download ChromeOS is nothing specific to 
>>>> Google (regardless of URL) and is heavy ad-infested.
>>>>          2) The Neverware version is far newer.
>>>>
>>>> SO the place to get ChromeOS is https://archiveos.org/croslinux/
>>>> While actually comes from an archive on sourceforge:
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/
>>>>
>>>> The neverware is not free (since they maintain it) - more on that 
>>>> as I contact them.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/15/2020 10:27 AM, Sam McClellan via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>>>> Hey Rich,
>>>>>
>>>>> You probably know a fair amount about Chromium vs Chrome OS by 
>>>>> now, but I've included all the info here for general consumption.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chrome OS is Chromium OS redesigned for Google's Chromebooks but 
>>>>> is also available for PCs. Chrome OS is designed for end users, 
>>>>> whereas Chromium OS is designed for developers/geeks and requires 
>>>>> more knowledge and maintenance and has less functionality targeted 
>>>>> to kids and regular users.
>>>>> https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq
>>>>>
>>>>> Chrome OS is a good choice for kids for five reasons -
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. designed to be simple to set up and maintain
>>>>> 2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard Linux 
>>>>> installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted
>>>>> 3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the Internet.
>>>>> 4. set up to be used by schools and kids
>>>>> 5. can now also run many Android apps
>>>>>
>>>>> The downsides:
>>>>> 1. It's very reliant on an Internet connection and can't run Linux 
>>>>> or Windows apps (although the alternatives can run Linux apps)
>>>>> 2. If you don't have an actual Chromebook, there are some 
>>>>> limitations although the alternatives can make up for these.
>>>>> 3. you have to be part of The Google to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can download ChromeOS for regular PC's here:
>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download which just 
>>>>> links to
>>>>> http://getchrome.eu/download.php
>>>>> but the first link at least shows you it's actually a Google download.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, most reviews say that Neverware's version of Chrome OS is 
>>>>> the best:
>>>>> https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a good recent review:
>>>>> https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best
>>>>>
>>>>> Other options for kids:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Sam
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Sam McClellan
>>>>> *Itabix, Inc*
>>>>> /One place for all things Web/
>>>>> sam at itabix.com
>>>>> https://itabix.com
>>>>> Main - 413.587.4600
>>>>> Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/14/2020 8:27 AM, Rich at tnr via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>> I need some suggestions, I'm being asked to process a batch of 
>>>>>> Dell laptops for the local school kids.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SO I need to
>>>>>>     (1) Wipe the hard drives
>>>>>>     (2) install a chromebook (like) environment so they can use 
>>>>>> typical virtual school sw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd prefer something free or close.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found 'Chromium OS'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any specific suggestions as to which of each you've had 
>>>>>> experience with.
>>>>>> I will collect the suggestions as well as the results and post on 
>>>>>> HT web site
>>>>>> This is for the Greenfield school kids, if anyone is handling 
>>>>>> other areas, please let me know and I'll make a list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (BTW, which has a set of covid-19 health and business (CARES act) 
>>>>>> details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks - Happy Tails and Stay healthy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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