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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">The most important thing is that the kids learn the
full details on sensitive or potentially dangerous topics
before they are presented with the need to make a decision on
them. I think exposing kids to sensitive topics in a
controlled setting, before they are fully aware of their
ramifications, is important. Then explain the dangers in such
a way that makes them take ownership of their safety as
equals, so that they see the dangers as dangers and not
arbitrary restrictions. This will imprint a positive feeling
to being safe. Restricting access to things and then
reprimanding the kid when they do wrong is very
counterproductive, but it is still the de facto approach in
many schools🤔.</span></font><br>
</p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://otherrealm.org">http://otherrealm.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://theotherrealm.org">http://theotherrealm.org</a> (Blog)</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-15 2:41 PM, Sam McClellan
via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e09ac51f-8402-c0a0-a006-231b5fefa703@itabix.com"> Now
that we're throwing cents around, I don't think it's about one way
or the other is better, I think it's about appropriateness and the
situation and it's really the parents' and the educators' call.
Computers and internet devices are portals to information and
socialization in our culture and our world, the good and the bad.
I like your word, Aaron, "curate" and I would add the word
"titrate". Oversee, make things available as appropriate and as
they grow, but keep good boundaries. Boundaries are love for kids.
Unregulated and unsupervised access to the raw unbridled web too
early and too quickly can really mess with kids, just as with
media, but if you never let them explore it they won't learn and
develop skills and calluses, and the "off limits" effect usually
makes it more desirable to explore the darker stuff.<br>
<br>
To that end, I think starting with a "walled garden" OS like
Chrome OS for young or inexperienced kids is usually a great idea,
then expand as they grow. And there's the support issue, as Matt
says, which would be a huge concern if you're going to be managing
a dozen kid's PC's.<br>
<br>
Sam<br>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<hr> Sam McClellan<br>
<strong>Itabix, Inc</strong><br>
<i>One place for all things Web</i><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sam@itabix.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sam@itabix.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://itabix.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://itabix.com</a><br>
Main - 413.587.4600<br>
Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249) <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/15/2020 1:28 PM, Aaron E-J via
Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:fa9bf104-4ef1-171a-30d4-2fc295726e22@otherrealm.org">
I second Stephen's points, it is important that things are out
in the open. Curate the way your kids learn hard topics, don't
prevent them from learning them.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://otherrealm.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://otherrealm.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://theotherrealm.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://theotherrealm.org</a> (Blog)</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-15 12:43 PM, Stephen
Michel via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1586969034.106145.0@smichel.me">
<div id="geary-body" dir="auto">
<div>
<div><span>To me, these are are downsides:</span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">2. has very good parental
controls, whereas a standard Linux installation like
Ubuntu can always be subverted <br>
3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the
Internet. <br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>Being hard to tinker with makes locked-down
devices a poor choice for encouraging intellectual
curiosity. Open devices teach that if you don't like
your environment, you can work to change it. I think
that's an important life lesson, not just in
computers; among other things, it's important for a
functioning democracy. </span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>This may be more controversial, but I also
don't believe in trying to prevent humans, however
small, from ever engaging with "bad stuff". I don't
think technical barriers are a good substitute for
open communication and trust. Better to talk about
these topics, where you have control over the
framing, </span><span>than wait for children to
discover them in a different context. Now, t</span><span>hese
conversation can happen too soon, so I'm not opposed
to weak parental controls. But, by the time a kid has
figured out how to bypass those controls, they're
probably also ready for that conversation. Finally,
figuring out how to bypass the controls involves a
fair amount of learning — an excellent educational
outcome, even if not ideal from other perspectives.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>So, I'm also in favor of installing a full
linux distro. If these computers will belong to the
kids permanently, I might even suggest providing the
older kids with a small flash drive (4-8GB) and a
suggestion to try out different distributions.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="geary-signature" dir="auto">--<br>
I try to write short, functional emails.</div>
<div id="geary-quote" dir="auto"><br>
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:19, Rich@OTN via Hidden-discuss <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net></a>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Interesting comparison.<br>
Major notes about ChromeOS<br>
1) The publizied download ChromeOS is nothing
specific to Google (regardless of URL) and is heavy
ad-infested.<br>
2) The Neverware version is far newer.</p>
<p>SO the place to get ChromeOS is <a
href="https://archiveos.org/croslinux/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://archiveos.org/croslinux/</a><br>
While actually comes from an archive on sourceforge: <br>
<a
href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/</a></p>
<p>The neverware is not free (since they maintain it) -
more on that as I contact them.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/15/2020 10:27 AM, Sam
McClellan via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4ef44db4-5009-dc74-4488-d15b6d216720@itabix.com">
Hey Rich,<br>
<br>
You probably know a fair amount about Chromium vs Chrome
OS by now, but I've included all the info here for
general consumption.<br>
<br>
Chrome OS is Chromium OS redesigned for Google's
Chromebooks but is also available for PCs. Chrome OS is
designed for end users, whereas Chromium OS is designed
for developers/geeks and requires more knowledge and
maintenance and has less functionality targeted to kids
and regular users. <br>
<a
href="https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq</a><br>
<br>
Chrome OS is a good choice for kids for five reasons - <br>
<br>
1. designed to be simple to set up and maintain <br>
2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard
Linux installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted <br>
3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the
Internet. <br>
4. set up to be used by schools and kids<br>
5. can now also run many Android apps <br>
<br>
The downsides: <br>
1. It's very reliant on an Internet connection and can't
run Linux or Windows apps (although the alternatives can
run Linux apps)<br>
2. If you don't have an actual Chromebook, there are
some limitations although the alternatives can make up
for these.<br>
3. you have to be part of The Google to use it. <br>
<br>
You can download ChromeOS for regular PC's here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download</a>
which just links to<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://getchrome.eu/download.php"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://getchrome.eu/download.php</a><br>
but the first link at least shows you it's actually a
Google download.<br>
<br>
However, most reviews say that Neverware's version of
Chrome OS is the best:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text</a><br>
<br>
Here's a good recent review:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best</a><br>
<br>
Other options for kids:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html</a><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Sam<br>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<hr> Sam McClellan<br>
<strong>Itabix, Inc</strong><br>
<i>One place for all things Web</i><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:sam@itabix.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sam@itabix.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://itabix.com" moz-do-not-send="true">https://itabix.com</a><br>
Main - 413.587.4600<br>
Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249) <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/14/2020 8:27 AM,
Rich@tnr via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0dfd74a8-b771-e787-a8c7-e1f8b2b1c468@tnrglobal.com">All,
<br>
I need some suggestions, I'm being asked to process a
batch of Dell laptops for the local school kids. <br>
<br>
SO I need to <br>
(1) Wipe the hard drives <br>
(2) install a chromebook (like) environment so
they can use typical virtual school sw. <br>
<br>
I'd prefer something free or close. <br>
<br>
I found 'Chromium OS' <br>
<br>
Any specific suggestions as to which of each you've
had experience with. <br>
I will collect the suggestions as well as the results
and post on HT web site <br>
This is for the Greenfield school kids, if anyone is
handling other areas, please let me know and I'll make
a list. <br>
<br>
(BTW, which has a set of covid-19 health and business
(CARES act) details. <br>
<br>
Thanks - Happy Tails and Stay healthy. <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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