[Hidden-tech] Graphic design contest for a card deck

[Todd LeMieux]

I agree with everything Aaron stated, and would add that encouraging
students to work for free and/or enter contests only serves to continue
this mindset.

As a student, I charged less for my services…but I charged.

Best,
Todd


Untitled Document

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Todd M. LeMieux
413.237.6869
[Graphic Design + Creative Direction]

Twitter <http://twitter.com/toddmlemieux>  |  LinkedIn
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Good Design Will Prevail.™ <https://www.behance.net/toddlemieux>

On September 27, 2019 at 2:41:33 PM, Garth via Hidden-discuss (
hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net) wrote:

Oh indeed!   I was just suggesting that a design student may want actual
real world experience vs student portfolio.

In other news, what if everything wasn’t just about monetizing :)
But yes at least in our current system, people should get paid for their
work.

Garth Shaneyfelt
Let’s Create a Better World


On Sep 27, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Kiernan Gulick-Sherrill <
kiernan at greenearthpc.us> wrote:

Garth,

Legally speaking an internship Must be paid if the business is profiting
from the work of the intern. Unpaid internships require that the intern be
the primary beneficiary of such an experience/relationship (
https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm)  That means work of an
intern cannot displace work of a paid employee and must be primarily
educational for the intern.

For this reason many many more modern internships are paid, paid less but
paid.

Kiernan Gulick-Sherrill

Pronouns: He/Him
Green Earth Computers - Computer & Smartphone Repair

20A Crafts Ave

Northampton, MA 01060

www.greenearthpc.us
413-282-8324


See what people are saying -- Check us out on Yelp!
<http://www.yelp.com/biz/green-earth-computers-northampton-4>


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM Garth via Hidden-discuss <
hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:

> I dunno internships are a thing.
>
> Garth Shaneyfelt
> Let’s Create a Better World
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Aaron Taylor-Waldman via Hidden-discuss <
> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences, Kimo—and I have to ask, who are you
> advocating for?
>
> I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design Contest
>
>
> I'm not buying it—and I caution all young designers to be careful about
> 'building your portfolio' claims. It's a red flag.
>
> An agency, sure they can handle new business expenses—though unpaid
> pitches are becoming a relic. And the people doing the actual pitch work
> get paid. But design students?
>
> Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but occasionally you get
>> a gem.
>
>
> Professionals, and aspiring professionals, don't provide services with the
> hope that they will *occasionally* get a reward. I would never encourage
> a young design student to build their portfolio by entering contests.
> Design students build a portfolio in school, or in creating self-directed
> design projects. As a small design studio, I have never asked any
> freelancer—including students—to work for free. A for-profit business
> should pay for design services.
>
> My number one advice for designers out there: demand more money.
>
> Cheers,
> Aaron
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 11:52 AM B. Kimo Lee <bklee at azurelink.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings HT,
>>
>> Interesting discussion going on. Also following the parallel thread about *The
>> Other Job Fair*.
>>
>> I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design Contest — design
>> students looking to build a portfolio, or people just starting out with the
>> same goal. I submitted quite a few pieces back when I was in school during
>> the late 70’s and actually “won" several. Good to have printed samples.
>>
>> Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but occasionally you get
>> a gem.
>>
>> At agencies I’ve worked at, we often would develop creative concepts for
>> campaigns which were technically “on spec” but these were for new business
>> pitches for national clients. If we won the account, it would pay off in a
>> big way. We had a budget allocated for this type of spec work.
>>
>> Happy Fall,
>> Kimo
>>
>>
>>
>> AZURELINK  ::  “Creative Design Technologies"
>>
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>>
>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:15 PM, Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss <
>> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>>
>> Aaron,
>>
>> This is a GREAT template to go by!!
>>
>> Denise
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 3:56 PM Aaron Taylor-Waldman <
>> aaron at taylorwaldman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The AIGA (American Institute of Graphic Arts) has made their stance
>>> clear https://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work
>>>
>>> When it comes to work-for-hire, I offer these options for creative
>>> services:
>>>
>>>    - Paid work
>>>    - Pro bono (or volunteering) — for cause work only, and no more than
>>>    20% of my annual work hours.
>>>    - Personal projects (The only person who gets 'free' work is me)
>>>
>>> Equity may be an option for some, sure—but 90% of the time you should
>>> take the money. Unless you're a cofounder of a company, and/or the equity
>>> offer is from a startup with a valuation and funding (not bootstrapping).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:34 PM Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss <
>>> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kris,
>>>>
>>>> I've always likened the idea of these skills being too easy to be paid
>>>> their worth as being seen as simple as coloring. What I don't get is if
>>>> they clearly see these skills as so simplified it requires little to no
>>>> pay, why don't they just do it themselves? I am, by no means, implying that
>>>> is the case here. Good/great designers cost money, and I completely
>>>> understand the overwhelming weight of the costs any organization, or
>>>> individual lacking the funds, can be.
>>>>
>>>> Denise
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:05 PM kris badertscher via Hidden-discuss <
>>>> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a media and communications/graphic designer, I found this *contest*
>>>>> to be incredibly disrespectful to the ever-expanding community of pioneer
>>>>> valley creatives who so often have to go against their better judgement and
>>>>> take work either pro bono (hoping that it leads to paid a gig), for barter,
>>>>> or for slave-wage labor just in order to pay a bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> This cultivated western Massachusetts mentality of bargaining for free
>>>>> or underpaid labor predominates in this region where creative workers are
>>>>> consistently being taken advantage of because so few opportunities present
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether it's photography, video, graphic design, or another skilled
>>>>> creative endeavor, other professionals in the Valley seem to think that
>>>>> these skills require nothing more than just a press of a button. Or maybe
>>>>> they do know and understand that having a subscription to Adobe or
>>>>> Microsoft products or other applications, plus equipment and training in
>>>>> order to make their designs for clients are outrageously expensive and they
>>>>> don't care. Because right, there's always the bounty of students to hire
>>>>> willing to put up with unpaid labor early in their careers.
>>>>>
>>>>> This mindset hurts all of us. We all then have to accept underpaid
>>>>> labor as an exploited community in order to survive, never mind
>>>>> *thrive*. What results is that no one outside the creative community
>>>>> gets a sense of what a project *actually* costs which repeats this
>>>>> unethical cycle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Living in the age of wanting something for (nearly) nothing is doing
>>>>> everyone a disservice and my recommendation is to first research the market
>>>>> and know how much a particular job costs. And please consider the cost- not
>>>>> just of what you are offering in exchange for labor or products, but the
>>>>> cost to all of us who live with the consequences of that mindset.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Kris
>>>>>
>>>>> sustainabilitydesigner.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:36 PM Rich at OTN via Hidden-discuss <
>>>>> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You do realize that that amounts for barely 4 hours of a reasonable
>>>>>> wage for a graphic artist
>>>>>> and that only goes to the winner -- really doesn't sound in line with
>>>>>> your company name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd hope to see something more, maybe at least a percent of sales
>>>>>> OR just hire an artist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>>> On 9/20/2019 6:37 AM, Jessica Gifford via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm running a design contest for the back and box of a customized
>>>>>> deck of *Connection Cards*, which are used in a program that helps
>>>>>> participants get to know new people, build social connections, and develop
>>>>>> friendships. Each card has a question that participants answer as part of
>>>>>> the program. There will be a $150 prize for the winning design. You
>>>>>> may email jessica at growingwellness.life for entry guidelines. Please
>>>>>> pass along to anyone who may be interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jessica Gifford, LICSW
>>>>>> www.growingwellness.life
>>>>>> 413-548-4688
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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