<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">I agree with everything Aaron stated, and would add that encouraging students to work for free and/or enter contests only serves to continue this mindset.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">As a student, I charged less for my services…but I charged.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Best,</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Todd</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div> <br> <div class="gmail_signature">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<p>-------------------</p><p>Todd M. LeMieux<br>
413.237.6869<br>
[Graphic Design + Creative Direction]<br>
<br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/toddmlemieux">Twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddmlemieux/">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/toddmlemieux">Facebook</a><br>
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</div> <br><p class="airmail_on">On September 27, 2019 at 2:41:33 PM, Garth via Hidden-discuss (<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div dir="auto"><div></div><div>
<title></title>
Oh indeed! I was just suggesting that a design student may
want actual real world experience vs student portfolio.
<div><br></div>
<div>In other news, what if everything wasn’t just about monetizing
:)</div>
<div>But yes at least in our current system, people should get paid
for their work. <br>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<div>Garth Shaneyfelt</div>
<div>Let’s Create a Better World</div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 27, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Kiernan Gulick-Sherrill <<a href="mailto:kiernan@greenearthpc.us">kiernan@greenearthpc.us</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Garth,<br>
<br>
Legally speaking an internship Must be paid if the business is
profiting from the work of the intern. Unpaid internships require
that the intern be the primary beneficiary of such an
experience/relationship (<a href="https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm">https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm</a>)
That means work of an intern cannot displace work of a paid
employee and must be primarily educational for the
intern. <br>
<br>
For this reason many many more modern internships are paid, paid
less but paid. </div>
<br clear="all">
<div>
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<p style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">
Kiernan Gulick-Sherrill</p>
<p style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">
Pronouns: He/Him<br>
Green Earth Computers - Computer & Smartphone Repair</p>
<p style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">
20A Crafts Ave</p>
<p style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">
Northampton, MA 01060</p>
<p style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">
<a href="http://www.greenearthpc.us/" target="_blank">www.greenearthpc.us</a><br>
<span><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span id="gc-number-85" class="gc-cs-link" title="Call with Google Voice">413-282-8324</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="font-size:13px;margin:0px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,"Liberation Sans",FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">
<span style="font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,50,56);font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif">
<br></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,"Liberation Sans",FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:24px">
See what people are saying -- </span><span style="font-size:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,"Liberation Sans",FreeSans,sans-serif;line-height:24px">Check
us out on <a href="http://www.yelp.com/biz/green-earth-computers-northampton-4" target="_blank">Yelp!</a> </span><br></p>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM
Garth via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I dunno internships are a thing. <br>
<br>
<div id="gmail-m_6993499516065973532AppleMailSignature">
<div>Garth Shaneyfelt</div>
<div>Let’s Create a Better World</div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 27, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Aaron Taylor-Waldman via
Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks for sharing your experiences, Kimo—and I have
to ask, who are you advocating for?
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design
Contest</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>I'm not buying it—and I caution all young designers to be
careful about 'building your portfolio' claims. It's a red
flag.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>An agency, sure they can handle new business expenses—though
unpaid pitches are becoming a relic. And the people doing the
actual pitch work get paid. But design students?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but occasionally
you get a gem.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Professionals, and aspiring professionals, don't provide
services with the hope that they will <i>occasionally</i> get a
reward. I would never encourage a young design student to build
their portfolio by entering contests. Design students build a
portfolio in school, or in creating self-directed design projects.
As a small design studio, I have never asked any
freelancer—including students—to work for free. A for-profit
business should pay for design services. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>My number one advice for designers out there: demand more
money. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Aaron</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 11:52 AM
B. Kimo Lee <<a href="mailto:bklee@azurelink.com" target="_blank">bklee@azurelink.com</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Greetings HT,
<div><br></div>
<div>Interesting discussion going on. Also following the parallel
thread about <i>The Other Job Fair</i>.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design
Contest — design students looking to build a portfolio, or people
just starting out with the same goal. I submitted quite a few
pieces back when I was in school during the late 70’s and actually
“won" several. Good to have printed samples.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but
occasionally you get a gem.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At agencies I’ve worked at, we often would develop creative
concepts for campaigns which were technically “on spec” but these
were for new business pitches for national clients. If we won the
account, it would pay off in a big way. We had a budget allocated
for this type of spec work.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Happy Fall,</div>
<div>Kimo</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>AZURELINK :: “Creative Design Technologies"</div>
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<div>On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:15 PM, Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss
<<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_6993499516065973532gmail-m_-6799829466758086558Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Aaron,
<div><br></div>
<div>This is a GREAT template to go by!!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Denise</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 3:56 PM
Aaron Taylor-Waldman <<a href="mailto:aaron@taylorwaldman.com" target="_blank">aaron@taylorwaldman.com</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>The AIGA (American Institute of Graphic Arts) has made their
stance clear <a href="https://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work" target="_blank">https://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work</a></div>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>When it comes to work-for-hire, I offer these options for
creative services:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Paid work</li>
<li>Pro bono (or volunteering) — for cause work only, and no more
than 20% of my annual work hours.</li>
<li>Personal projects (The only person who gets 'free' work is
me)</li>
</ul>
<div>Equity may be an option for some, sure—but 90% of the time you
should take the money. Unless you're a cofounder of a company,
and/or the equity offer is from a startup with a valuation and
funding (not bootstrapping). <br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:34 PM
Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Kris,
<div><br></div>
<div>I've always likened the idea of these skills being too easy to
be paid their worth as being seen as simple as coloring. What I
don't get is if they clearly see these skills as so simplified it
requires little to no pay, why don't they just do it themselves? I
am, by no means, implying that is the case here. Good/great
designers cost money, and I completely understand the overwhelming
weight of the costs any organization, or individual lacking the
funds, can be.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Denise</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:05 PM
kris badertscher via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">As a
media and communications/graphic designer, I found this
<i>contest</i> to be incredibly disrespectful to the ever-expanding
community of pioneer valley creatives who so often have to go
against their better judgement and take work either pro bono
(hoping that it leads to paid a gig), for barter, or for slave-wage
labor just in order to pay a bill.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">This
cultivated western Massachusetts mentality of bargaining for free
or underpaid labor predominates in this region where creative
workers are consistently being taken advantage of because so few
opportunities present themselves. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Whether
it's photography, video, graphic design, or another skilled
creative endeavor, other professionals in the Valley seem to think
that these skills require nothing more than just a press of a
button. Or maybe they do know and understand that having a
subscription to Adobe or Microsoft products or other applications,
plus equipment and training in order to make their designs for
clients are outrageously expensive and they don't care. Because
right, there's always the bounty of students to hire willing to put
up with unpaid labor early in their careers. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">This
mindset hurts all of us. We all then have to accept underpaid labor
as an exploited community in order to survive, never mind
<i>thrive</i>. What results is that no one outside the creative
community gets a sense of what a project <u>actually</u> costs
which repeats this unethical cycle. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Living
in the age of wanting something for (nearly) nothing is doing
everyone a disservice and my recommendation is to first research
the market and know how much a particular job costs. And please
consider the cost- not just of what you are offering in exchange
for labor or products, but the cost to all of us who live with the
consequences of that mindset. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheers,
Kris</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a href="http://sustainabilitydesigner.com/" target="_blank">sustainabilitydesigner.com</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:36 PM
Rich@OTN via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>You do realize that that amounts for barely 4 hours of a
reasonable wage for a graphic artist<br>
and that only goes to the winner -- really doesn't sound in line
with your company name.</p>
<p>I'd hope to see something more, maybe at least a percent of
sales<br>
OR just hire an artist.<br></p>
<p>Think about it.</p>
<div>On 9/20/2019 6:37 AM, Jessica Gifford via Hidden-discuss
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">Hi All,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">I'm running a design
contest</span> for the back and box of a customized deck of
<i>Connection Cards</i>, which are used in a program that helps
participants get to know new people, build social connections, and
develop friendships. Each card has a question that participants
answer as part of the program. There will be a <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">$150 prize for the winning
design.</span> You may email <a href="mailto:jessica@growingwellness.life" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">jessica@growingwellness.life</a> for entry guidelines.
Please pass along to anyone who may be interested.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Thanks!<br>
Jessica<br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<br clear="all"></p>
<br>
--<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><span><img src="https://docs.google.com/a/growingwellness.life/uc?id=0B6jl7Aw-S4bjQjJWc19HdXliamc&export=download" width="115" height="37"><br>
<br></span>
<span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span>Jessica
Gifford, LICSW<span><span><span><br>
<a href="http://www.growingwellness.life/" target="_blank">www.growingwellness.life</a></span></span></span><br>
413-548-4688</span></span></span></span></span></span> </span></span></span><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<br>
<br></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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