[Hidden-tech] wireless networking in machine shops

[Spike McLarty]

There is such wonderful expertise on this list, I've seen it so many times
but I'm still amazed.
Thank you!

My original post wasn't clear on a couple of points, my apologies.
We do know about Cat5 ;-)  we normally pull cable! But for this one new
customer cable was going to be a big hassle so - we put in WiFi
(Industrial! Internet-of-Things ready!) and - there have been many
learnings. Many.  Also the customer is way out of state. Of course, right?

So I'm actually working two problems:
First I need to get this one customer up and running, which is looking more
and more like pulling cable, as many of you suggested.
But maybe we'll try some RFI tracking & squashing (I love the AM radio
technique!) as an interim step.

Then, second, I still want a wireless networking technology that we could
deploy, or better, that our customers could deploy - that doesn't make us
want to kick puppies. Pulling cable is a hassle and an expense, and a
bottleneck.  At our price point and size, some kind of wireless, if it can
be made to work reliably, would be a big advantage.

I'd been looking at RF options, like ultra-wideband, but also wondering
about visible light, infra-red, acoustic (hey, malware does it). Or any of
the above line-of-sight.
Kiernan - going through the wiring is a very interesting suggestion that I
will look into! I walk past your shop almost every day, I'll get in touch.

I'm inspired & encouraged.  I will follow up with some of you off-list, and
I'll post to the list with an update when we have some kind of progress.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Tom Kopec <tek at acm.org> wrote:

> Mr. Heller is dead on.
>
> Unfortunately, the client may have been sold on wireless and now the job
> is making it all work :(
>
> I do a fair amount of work with a large local manufacturer.. dealing
> with RF/power/ground/comms/noise issues.  I'd be glad to talk through
> what you're faced with for the price of breakfast. I'll NDA if needed.
>
> My experience is that the "obvious" problem is rarely the problem.
>
> ...tom
>
>
> On 7/1/2016 4:13 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:39:11 -0400 Spike McLarty <spike.mclarty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Anybody on the list who's worked with WiFi (or any other wireless
> digital
> >> networking) in a hostile environment?  By 'hostile' I just mean a
> factory
> >> or machine shop with lots of intermittent, bursty RFI from unknown
> sources.
> >> Not, like, bad guys with jammers ;-)
> >>
> >> I'm imagining somebody who actually understands WireShark filters and
> has
> >> used a radio-spectrum analyzer.
> >>
> >> I work at machinemetrics.com - we do production equipment monitoring
> and
> >> analytics, and we've gotten outside our zone of expertise trying to do
> WiFi
> >> at some customer machine shops where the WiFi part of the spectrum is
> >> really messy.
> > Question: Is *wireless* a requirement or just a convience? My
> understanding of
> > machine tools is that they are not something that are moved -- they tend
> to be
> > bolted to the floor (or are just so heavy they might as well be). The
> *easy*
> > solution would be to just run Cat 5e or Cat 6 cables (in armored
> conduit!).
> > Even if the machines themselves are not networked, having a RJ45 jack or
> two
> > handy by each machine or work area and then jacking in laptops with
> > Ethernet patch cables might be a workable solution.
> >
> > Big electric motors, especially DC (and AC/DC) ones, give off all sorts
> of RF
> > 'noise'. Fixed speed AC ones are not as bad, but can also be noisy.
> >
> >> -spike _/\_
> >>
> >> MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>
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