[Hidden-tech] Drive for Uber? Or ride with them?

Scot Broderick scot at scotbroderick.com
Tue Aug 18 13:12:20 EDT 2015


Unless Uber's insurance policy has changed in the last month, its 
"Online (Not on Trip)" insurance does not cover the Uber driver's 
/vehicle/ during that phase of the ride and only covers driver injury or 
death if the accident is /not their fault/.  Auto insurers say personal 
policies will not cover anything during this period of the ride.

So it seems that the only way an Uber driver can be assured of full 
coverage in this "gap" period is to buy insurance that specifically 
covers this period.  How much this insurance will cost and what exactly 
is required appears to differ on a state by state basis. BTW,  it is no 
surprise that Uber only started covering this "gap" period when 19 
states passed laws that mandated it. A July 1st article in Forbes online 
pretty much explains the limitations of the Uber and consumer car 
insurance in this area.

The subtext to this insurance issue is that the way Uber handles 
insurance for it's drivers has a direct impact on their claim that 
drivers are independent contractors, not employees.   In many states, 
including ours, many individuals or "freelancers" are required to have 
their own liability insurance to be (legally and tax-wise) considered an 
independent contractor.  But if you're covered by the insurance of the 
organization you are "contracting" to, you start looking more like an 
employee. It will be interesting to see where this goes.


Scot Broderick
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On 8/18/15 11:37 AM, Ron Miller wrote:
>
>
>
>
> From The Uber Website: https://www.uber.com/driver-jobs (scroll down 
> to see insurance section).
>
> If you choose Uber you'll be driving your own car, which means you'll 
> at least need to have personal auto insurance. Uber maintains 
> industry-leading coverage and $1MM of commercial auto coverage on 
> every rideshare trip with special commercial insurance specifically 
> designed for ridesharing.
>
> And
>
> http://newsroom.uber.com/2014/03/56463/
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Liz Provo 
> <liz at massmarketingresources.com 
> <mailto:liz at massmarketingresources.com>> wrote:
>
>     Here’s a pretty recent article regarding the liability
>     conversation surrounding “ride share” companies doing business in
>     Massachusetts. Insurance is governed by each state.  Commercial
>     insurance requires commercial plates and it’s not cheap. I can’t
>     see that an Uber driver involved in an accident would be able to
>     use the “lie and say I’m not working”. Attorneys would have a
>     field day with that claim.  Uber drivers are essentially paid taxi
>     drivers using their own vehicles to make a few bucks. Uber must
>     have thought about protecting the company — drivers and
>     passengers, not so much, at least until a child was tragically
>     killed by their “independently contract” driver.
>
>     Liz Provo
>
>     Mass Marketing Resources
>
>     13 Knight Ave.
>
>     Easthampton, MA  01027
>
>     (413) 539-7950 <tel:%28413%29%20539-7950>
>
>     liz at massmarketingresources.com <mailto:liz at massmarketingresources.com>
>
>     http://www.massmarketingresources.com
>
>
>     Join My Mailing List
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>
>
>
>     From: <hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net
>     <mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net>> on behalf
>     of Max Hartshorne <editorial at gonomad.com
>     <mailto:editorial at gonomad.com>>
>     Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 9:22 AM
>     To: Deborah Chandler <debchandler411 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:debchandler411 at gmail.com>>
>     Cc: Ron Miller <ronsmiller at gmail.com
>     <mailto:ronsmiller at gmail.com>>, Rich Roth - Webmaster
>     <webmaster at hidden-tech.net <mailto:webmaster at hidden-tech.net>>,
>     Hidden-Tech Tech <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
>     <mailto:hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>>
>
>     Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] Drive for Uber? Or ride with them?
>
>     I really don't think UBER hasn't thought this whole insurance
>     thing out...it would be very surprising for a company valued at
>     $53 billion to not know the work-around for car insurance for
>     their drivers. I think your agent is just scaring you.
>
>     -----------------------
>
>     Max Hartshorne
>
>     Editor
>
>     GoNOMAD.com Travel
>
>     P.O. Box 4
>
>     9 Mountain Rd.
>
>     South Deerfield, MA 01373
>
>     413-624-6640 <tel:413-624-6640>
>
>     www.gonomad.com <http://www.gonomad.com>
>
>     Writer's Guidelines
>     <http://www.gonomad.com/about-us/writer-s-guidelines>
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: "Deborah Chandler" <debchandler411 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:debchandler411 at gmail.com>>
>     Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:48pm
>     To: "Ron Miller" <ronsmiller at gmail.com <mailto:ronsmiller at gmail.com>>
>     Cc: "Rich Roth - Webmaster" <webmaster at hidden-tech.net
>     <mailto:webmaster at hidden-tech.net>>, "Hidden-Tech Tech"
>     <Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
>     <mailto:Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>>
>     Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] Drive for Uber? Or ride with them?
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     Well, I have not received a personal reply email from Uber about
>     the situation, but I received this text tonight (likely sent to
>     drivers throughout the entire region), in case anyone else would
>     like to show up. I will definitely be there.
>
>     UBER: Meet an Uber representative tomorrow at the Residence Inn
>     Marriott Springfield-Chicopee from 9–1PM! Come in and get your
>     questions answered. See you then!
>
>     Best,
>     Deb
>
>     On Aug 17, 2015 7:13 PM, "Ron Miller" <ronsmiller at gmail.com
>     <mailto:ronsmiller at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         I've used Uber frequently and I always talk to the drivers
>         about why they're doing it, how they got into it and if they
>         like it. To a person everyone has loved doing it. No complaints.
>         I've had nothing but positive experiences. In fact, I took one
>         in LA once and the guy was so nice, the person I was riding
>         with offered him a tip and he refused it.
>         The thing I love about it is that you order it, you pay
>         through the app automatically and you get out when you get
>         there. It's so simple.
>         I have had instances where it didn't work well, but that was
>         due to excessive crowds and the drivers just couldn't get to me.
>         BTW, there are some drivers set up in western Mass,
>         particularly in Springfield, but it's not widespread at this
>         point by any means.
>         Ron
>
>         On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Deborah Chandler
>         <debchandler411 at gmail.com <mailto:debchandler411 at gmail.com>>
>         wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>             Hi Hal and all,
>             I wanted to bring you all up to date on this insurance
>             issue with Uber. >From my research to date, and that of a
>             few local insurance agents, it is looking like Uber has
>             not done their homework in the state of Massachusetts. I
>             just emailed them, included my findings from my local
>             insurance agents, but as of the night I discovered the
>             potentially huge issue, I have not driven for Uber.
>             If any of you drive for them, or know anyone who is, or
>             who is driving for Lyft or Sidecar or any other rideshare
>             companies (or as Uber calls themselves, a "transportation
>             network provider") PLEASE realize that even if you keep
>             driving for them, and play dumb about your insurance
>             coverage, you could potentially be opening yourself up to
>             "uber" liability. I am learning that not only can your
>             insurance company cancel your policy, but once they find
>             out you've driven for one of the rideshares, (and they
>             *can* find the evidence from your phone app) then you
>             could be slapped with insurance fraud.
>             Feel free to contact me offline if you would like to
>             discuss this further. I will also share what Uber writes
>             back to me. But as of this writing, I am putting Uber in
>             the category of unethical companies who are willing to
>             hang their independent contractors out to dry, and who are
>             taking a calculated risk if an incident arises. And I
>             simply do not have any interest in testing those waters. I
>             will not continue to drive for Uber until such time I find
>             out that an insurance agent will legally cover me.
>             Meanwhile, as Hal stated, a commercial policy is just cost
>             prohibitive for many of us wanting to do this type of
>             work. And furthermore, the agent I just spoke to won't
>             even write a commercial policy, because it is too risky,
>             as Uber and the others navigate the turbulent marketplace.
>             Lastly, if you are a passenger with Uber, please make sure
>             YOU are adequately covered if you are injured or killed.
>             That also seems to be up in the air. I don't know any of
>             the details of the Uber case in CA, but an Uber driver hit
>             and killed a little 6 year old girl and it has gone to
>             court. IT sounds like Uber is saying they are not liable.
>             Best,
>             Deb
>
>             On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Hal Rosenthal
>             <hrosen50 at gmail.com <mailto:hrosen50 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 I was in the process of becoming a driver and checked
>                 with Amica, my insurance company. They were extremely
>                 clear that my policy would not cover Uber driving. Had
>                 I not checked and had an issue, they wouldStoller have
>                 denied the claim. They suggested that I get a
>                 commercial policy. I've decided to cancel my
>                 application to drive.
>                 Are you suggesting that Uber has insurance for its
>                 drivers?  At the risk of being told what Amica told me
>                 but at least not getting surprised if you needed to
>                 use your insurance, I suggest you check with your
>                 carrier.
>                 Hal
>
>
>                 On Thursday, August 6, 2015, Deborah Chandler
>                 <debchandler411 at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:debchandler411 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>                     Hi all,
>
>                     To follow up, I have been driving for Uber for
>                     about a month now. They
>                     officially rolled out the Springfield area back at
>                     the end of April.
>
>                     All is going fine overall, albeit slow. But I am
>                     assured by my student
>                     passengers that the amount of work will increase
>                     when students come
>                     back to school over the next month. It seems the
>                     students all use Uber
>                     and love it, and they have many reasons to use
>                     Uber over a taxi. Word
>                     about Uber has apparently spread mostly word of mouth.
>
>                     The reason I am writing to you great folks is that
>                     I am having a bit
>                     of confusion and concern over my auto insurance
>                     coverage not being
>                     adequate and I wonder if someone can help me
>                     understand it.  In my
>                     approval process to become a driver, I shared my
>                     insurance policy with
>                     Uber. They shared theirs with me once I was
>                     approved. But now I am
>                     hearing from other drivers that there is concern
>                     over us drivers not
>                     being adequately covered.
>
>                     So, if you are either driving for Uber and have
>                     already gained a solid
>                     understanding about our insurance coverage, or you
>                     work in the auto
>                     insurance industry, please be in touch with me
>                     right away. I can share
>                     my documents (which I admit, I don't follow too
>                     easily, and my
>                     insurance agent is still *researching*...)
>
>                     REQUEST: please don't respond in criticism of Uber
>                     if your only
>                     knowledge about Uber is through reading the
>                     mainstream media and all
>                     the back-and-forth conflict between the taxi
>                     industry, the various
>                     city and state regulators and Uber corporate. As
>                     usual, the media
>                     stories are full of exaggerations and biases. They
>                     tend to confuse and
>                     muddy the waters, and the politicians usually base
>                     their loyalties on
>                     who contributed to their campaign coffers.
>
>                     In my opinion, Uber is fair competition for the
>                     taxi industry and many
>                     taxi drivers are just getting their knickers in a
>                     twist because they
>                     had to pay a lot of money up front to do their job
>                     and now Uber
>                     drivers are doing the same job better, without the
>                     upfront cost and
>                     they are taking business from the taxi drivers. I
>                     would be pissy, too,
>                     if I were them...
>
>                     Thanks in advance for your solid input on this,
>                     Deb
>
>                     On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Rich Roth -
>                     Webmaster
>                     <webmaster at hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>                     > Emailing in from the land of the Uber (SF)
>                     > We've used Uber/Lyft a few times just in the
>                     last week and I'd have to say
>                     > it works well
>                     > here because there are so many drivers, you wait
>                     maybe, well actually you
>                     > don't wait
>                     > you have to be ready when you call -- ok so you
>                     don't call, you request it
>                     > on the ap
>                     > which shows you exactly where the incoming car
>                     is and then handles all
>                     > payment.
>                     >
>                     > No reason someone in the Valley can't drive for
>                     Uber, only I'd wonder
>                     > how many call requests you'd get, esp given how
>                     far you'd need to go,
>                     > AND what I really don't know is how Uber handles
>                     the driving cost outside of
>                     > the actual trip.
>                     >
>                     > Net-net: might work in the more concentrated
>                     area like Springfield,
>                     > or Holyoke on a busy weekend -- beyond that,
>                     many of these 'ap' based
>                     > alternative
>                     > approaches to transportation and the like work
>                     on spontaneous requests
>                     > because of the concentration of the people
>                     needing such services.
>                     >
>                     > Ridebuzz has a better chance of working when
>                     people plan ahead
>                     >
>                     > Interesting in any case to explore alternatives
>                     for rural areas.
>                     > Part of why airbnb or Uber work is because the
>                     infrastructure the company
>                     > provides
>                     > a level of safety individual connections do not,
>                     such as insurance and
>                     > mutual ratings.
>                     >
>                     > Rich/webmaster
>                     >
>                     >
>                     > On 4/3/2015 3:22 PM, Deborah Chandler wrote:
>                     >>
>                     >>
>                     >>
>                     >> Hi all,
>                     >>
>                     >> Do you drive for Uber or do you use their ride
>                     services? I would like
>                     >> to ask you about it. I don't see any Western
>                     Mass towns or cities
>                     >> listed yet, but wonder how to find out who
>                     drives in our area. I see
>                     >> Worcester is listed.
>                     >>
>                     >> My understanding is that we can offer and get
>                     rides in our area, even
>                     >> if our city is not listed, as long as there are
>                     drivers signed up and
>                     >> available.
>                     >>
>                     >> Thanks,
>                     >> Deb
>                     >> _______________________________________________
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>                     >>
>                     >
>                     >
>                     > --
>                     > Rich Roth
>                     > Hidden-Tech
>                     > webmaster/board member
>                     > http://www.hidden-tech.net
>                     > Sponsor: http://www.thrivesmedia.com
>                     >
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>         -- 
>         Ron Miller
>         Freelance Technology Journalist
>
>         Enterprise Reporter, TechCrunch
>         <http://techcrunch.com/author/ron-miller/>
>
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>
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