As someone who does a certain amount of web surfing: If I encounter a site that *needs* flash to view or navigate it, I generally will just go elsewhere. I use the FlashBlock extension for FireFox, so Flash thingies just show up as a blank space with a 'F' in the middle (which I can click on if I want to bother -- I almost never do). I *suspect* that there are many people who are put off by a site which *depends* on flash for navigation -- I am and I suspect almost anyone on a (slow) dial-up connection is. -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows heller at deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/