There is a major cost in moving to a new language -- and as Fred says, ROR is a combination of language and framework, the real power comes from what the framework provides -- the ROR team as done a great job, it is a shame they are tied to the Ruby language - why ? I won't get into language debates - for this discussion, all that counts is that it is not commonly known and whole new world for too many. As for PHP, there are a number of frameworks: The two top ones (IMHO) are: Symfony http://www.symfony-project.com/ and Cake http://www.cakephp.org/ We did some work on a web interface to make Symfony even easier it is at: http://conductor.tnrnet.com/ (the release set there is a bit messy, there was a crack in server with the wiki and we didn't reconstruct it all) If anyone would like to discuss symfony more, email me offline Rich hiddentec at p98n.com wrote: > > To clear up some confusion, "Ruby on Rails" is not a programming > language, it's a framework for developing web applications that > happens to be written in and targeted for the "Ruby" programming > language: > http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ > > There are some analogous Perl projects; e.g. Catalyst, and Jifty: > http://www.catalystframework.org/ > http://jifty.org > > The idea of all of these is to make it easier to create web-based > applications by providing standard methods - and code - for doing > things most web applications need to do - e.g. authentication, session > management, etc. > -Fred > -- Rich Roth CEO On-the-net Bringing you complex online systems since the net was young http://www.tnrglobal.com - http://www.on-the-net.com/rr/