Just a quick note to say this dialog was a delightful last-Saturday- of-2006 diversion. If anyone is so editorially inclined this thread makes a perfectly succinct summary of a very complex issue. (One that the Culture At Large does not yet have a consensus answer to.) From the moral implications of teaching a child about file-sharing to the actual legal ramifications of copying files to the specifics of royalty agreements between libraries and publishers this discussion was a round-the-issue-in-a-day review. Thank you to the hidden-tech community for being so smart, so cool and so accessible. Happy new year. On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:18 PM, mallets at mac.com wrote: > Another point on cassettes and cds is that the RMA (recording > musicans of america) the people who played on the records > negotiated a % of all blank Cassetes and Cds sold so when you make > copies people are payed. The artists and musicians, (not the POWERS > THAT BE to them copying is small change) > On Dec 30, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Mitch Anthony wrote: > >> ** The author of this post was a Good Dobee. >> ** You too can help the group >> ** Fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's area. >> ** If you did, we all thank you. >> >> >> Great point about the difference between downloads and cassette >> copying. >> >> I am a serious collector of music. (3000 vinyl albums, as many cds >> and 500 gigs of mp3s. Back in the day I was a serious maker of >> mix tapes. Today I'm a serious maker of compilations. >> >> But here's the difference: back when we copied from vinyl (great >> fidelity) to tape (lousy fidelity and a lot of background noise) >> we were stepping down in fidelity. The result? Study after study >> showed that tapers and tape sharers bought more records and CDs >> than anyone else. During that time sales of records (then CDs) >> grew year after year. Because if I heard a song on tape I liked I >> wanted it for my collection. But I wanted it in the best quality >> format available, and that wasn't tape. So I'd here it on tape >> then go buy the record. >> >> But with mp3s there is NO loss of quality as you "share" (save the >> loss suffered when converted to mp3 the first time, but most >> stereo systems aren't good enough to detect the difference). The >> result is obvious. If you share an mp3 with me and I want it, >> I've got it. I have no incentive to buy it. Hence the decline of >> Cd sales year after year. >> >> No easy answers here, but I agree with Mr. Mallet.mac. The artist >> must be considered when trading digital files. >> >> P.S. The record industry is another story. They are getting >> their own after decades of unfair and exploitive business practices. >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 30, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Kelley Slater wrote: >> >>> gee I am beginning to feel a bit guilty here for recommending >>> limewire. Way back when, before file sharing upset the powers >>> that be,(and cold hard cash was such a motivator) kids would make >>> cassettes, does any one remember ever seeing a dual cassette >>> player in the 70's or 80's?? Now that I see all the forwards from >>> hidden tech users stating that file sharing sends a 'bad message' >>> I am wondering, as I sat as a youth recording songs from the >>> radio, were my parents considered sending a bad message?And what >>> about the stereo companies, pushing the cassette industry, or for >>> that matter blank VCRs to 'never miss a program again'? Nobody >>> seems to remember those things lately. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Anthony" >>> <mitch at element22.com> >>> To: "Hidden Tech" <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] Music downloads >>> >>> >>>> ** The author of this post was a Good Dobee. >>>> ** You too can help the group >>>> ** Fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's area. >>>> ** If you did, we all thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree that it sends a bad message to a kid that "music is >>>> free". In our house my daughter set up an ITunes account using >>>> my credit card which we reconcile against her allowance. It's >>>> been fascinating watching the growth of her very judiciously >>>> selected collection. >>>> >>>> Another great option is emusic.com. This subscription service >>>> charges $10 a month for up to 40 song downloads. Not only is it >>>> much cheaper than ITunes, it also has many more independent and >>>> international artists. And you can sleep at night knowing that >>>> appropriate royalties have been paid to the artists... >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:17 PM, mallets at mac.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> ** The author of this post was a Good Dobee. >>>>> ** You too can help the group >>>>> ** Fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's area. >>>>> ** If you did, we all thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just Pay the 99 cents and let the people who wrote the music >>>>> collect their meager royalty >>>>> stealing intellectual property is not moral >>>>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:35 PM, DAVID F. FARKAS wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ** The author of this post was a Good Dobee. >>>>>> ** You too can help the group >>>>>> ** Fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's area. >>>>>> ** If you did, we all thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My daughter wants to download MP3 songs free (of course) for >>>>>> her iPod and is Googling like crazy. We found file sharing >>>>>> which feels like the old Napster debacle and some download >>>>>> sites from old names like Kaaza. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm hoping someone on the list knows which of the many options >>>>>> are safe and easy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanx. >>>>>> Merry Everything and Happy Always >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden- >>>>>> tech.net >>>>>> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net >>>>>> >>>>>> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech >>>>>> Discussion list. >>>>>> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the >>>>>> Members page on the Hidden Tech Web site. >>>>>> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden- >>>>> tech.net >>>>> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net >>>>> >>>>> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech >>>>> Discussion list. >>>>> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the >>>>> Members page on the Hidden Tech Web site. >>>>> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net >>>> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net >>>> >>>> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech >>>> Discussion list. >>>> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the >>>> Members page on the Hidden Tech Web site. >>>> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net >> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net >> >> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech >> Discussion list. >> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members >> page on the Hidden Tech Web site. >> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members