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    <p><font face="Calibri">We've had several clients come to us over
        the years because they couldn't deal with WordPress. One even
        said they were ready to "lay themselves down on the tracks" if
        they had to continue using it. We now have three sites with
        them. This is not to say our solution is the best, or even tenth
        best, but we give the less tech savvy customers a simple "click
        the red edit button, edit the text, click the red save changes
        button" style of interface. Not many bells and whistles and only
        a little click and dragginess. Our clients appear to like it and
        about 10% of them log in to add new content, sometimes sending
        me an email asking for a refresher.</font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri">Not all clients are equal, and many of the
        clients other HT-ers have probably wouldn't like what we have,
        and so c'est la vie.<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri">Similar to Chad, our business model is to
        build the site, quickly and cheaply, and teach the client how to
        run it -- all while collecting the hosting fees for ourselves
        (instead of Wix, etc). As in the shaver industry, it's all about
        the blades.</font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri">Mik<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri"></font><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Mik Muller, president
Montague WebWorks
239-R Main Street, Greenfield, MA
413-320-5336
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://MontagueWebWorks.com">http://MontagueWebWorks.com</a>
Powered by ROCKETFUSION</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/11/2021 9:43 AM, C G via
      Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPYVYy7eATi_5fQgXy+Ka+z7qbfgFJq8cMsn0X+WPtoJhx0vKQ@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">As a new developer this year I struggled
          with Wordpress and even a little bit with Squarespace before I
          learned full stack and Python. I personally use WIX right now
          and find that it is going to be the best for " handing it off
          to the client". WIX also allows " old school CSS " which is
          kind of a great feature. My business model is to build the
          site and teach the client how to run it. 
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Chad</div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at
            11:42 PM GLP via Hidden-discuss <<a
              href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">They all have a
              learning curve. I certainly don't consider SquareSpace all
              that simple for end-users. That said, I don't have any
              issues with someone using SquareSpace or Weebly if it does
              what they need. The ones I worry about are things like
              Godaddy's page builder or something much more limited in
              scope. That is the kind of thing that has disappeared
              before. By the time you add a maintenance contract to
              a WordPress site, the client is paying the same as they
              would (maybe more, if there are paid plugins or they're
              getting gouged by the maintainer) for a hosted
              platform. SquareSpace and Weebly are multi-million-dollar
              companies and unlikely to disappear. And it's their
              sole/core business (unlike Adobe Business Catalyst). I
              would feel much more comfortable setting someone up
              on SquareSpace or Weebly than Joomla in terms of future
              support and compatibility.
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Greg</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
                <div><br>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div>On Aug 10, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Shel Horowitz via
                      Hidden-discuss <<a
                        href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <br>
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">Hi, folks.
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>I have a client who is really set on using
                          a web designer who works on these proprietary
                          platforms and doesn't do WordPress. I
                          expressed concern about these sites' lack of
                          portability and got back this response:</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">None of
                            the platforms I work on can be independently
                            hosted; they must be hosted on their
                            proprietary platforms. WordPress sites can
                            be hosted independently, but I chose not to
                            work on WordPress because I find it hard to
                            design on and hard for those who want to
                            maintain their sites themselves. Most of my
                            clients are ok with adding minor updates
                            like new text on these platforms, but
                            usually come back to me for adding new
                            pages. With that said though, I chose
                            Squarespace and Weebly (and Square Online,
                            which runs on Weebly) because I deemed these
                            were the easiest website builders for
                            non-tech people to use after testing a
                            number of products.</blockquote>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>To which I replied (relevant excerpt)...</div>
                          <div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I know
                              [Client] really wants to work with you,
                              but I have deep concerns about building on
                              a platform that the client can't control.
                              If WordPress disappears, sites built in
                              (but not hosted by) WordPress are fine,
                              though they became more difficult to
                              update.</blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I
                              don't know if one can display the code
                              from a Weebly or Squarespace site, copy
                              it, and bring it to another host. If that
                              is possible, if there's a way to strip out
                              the parts of the code that are
                              platform-specific and leave a functioning
                              HTML page, I would be a lot more
                              comfortable.<br>
                              Having seen Facebook first encourage and
                              then sabotage FBML, and having seen
                              properties like Plaxo and some of the
                              early free webhosts go defunct and leave
                              their users utterly stranded, I am
                              not keen on building a site that can only
                              be hosted by one specific host.</blockquote>
                          </div>
                          -- <br>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>She is, of course, right about
                                      WordPress. When it first came out,
                                      it was very easy to use, but now
                                      it often drives me nuts. I have
                                      one WP site that's built in
                                      building blocks that I can't seem
                                      to locate, and have had to go back
                                      to the designer (who is now
                                      unavailable) for very simple
                                      changes. But I think nobody has to
                                      use those features unless they
                                      want to, and it should be possible
                                      to design a site in less-fancy
                                      WordPress. And the big thing for
                                      me is how nervous I am about not
                                      having more than one hosting
                                      option.</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>What would you do in my shoes?</div>
                                    <div>Shel Horowitz - "The
                                      Transformpreneur"</div>
                                    <div>________________________________________________</div>
                                    <div>Contact me to bake in
                                      profitability while addressing
                                      hunger, </div>
                                    <div>poverty, war, and catastrophic
                                      climate change</div>
                                    <div>* First business ever to be
                                      Green America Gold Certified</div>
                                    <div>* Inducted into the National
                                      Environmental Hall of Fame</div>
                                    <div>* Certified speaker:
                                      International Platform Association</div>
                                    <div><a
                                        href="http://goingbeyondsustainability.com/"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://goingbeyondsustainability.com</a> </div>
                                    <div>mailto:<a
                                        href="mailto:shel@greenandprofitable.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">shel@greenandprofitable.com</a>
                                      413-586-2388</div>
                                    <div>Award-winning, best-selling
                                      author of 10 books. </div>
                                    <div>Latest: Guerrilla Marketing to
                                      Heal the World </div>
                                    <div>(co-authored with Jay Conrad
                                      Levinson)</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>Watch my TEDx Talk,</div>
                                    <div>"Impossible is a Dare: Business
                                      for a Better World"</div>
                                    <div><a
                                        href="http://www.ted.com/tedx/events/11809"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.ted.com/tedx/events/11809</a> </div>
                                    <div>(move your mouse to "event
                                      videos")</div>
                                    <div>_________________________________________________</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
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                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br>
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            _______________________________________________<br>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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