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<p><font face="Calibri">Back in 1999 I started using a hosting
company in California named Web66 who had an early version of
C-Panel, which I hated. Within a few years I switched to another
company that sold VMs, where you essentially get an empty
machine, Windows or Linux, and you build out what you need.
Haven't turned back since.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri">I first used Viux.com, then EnterHost.com,
and have since switched to CloudMailStore.com in Michigan. I
lease a massive Host Machine (192GB RAM, 1600GB HD in a RAID, 12
quad-core CPUs -- it's a sick machine) into which I created five
</font><font face="Calibri"><font face="Calibri">Virtual Machines
(</font>VMs) to hold my various web projects, one of which
hosts 350 websites, and another hosts my databases.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri">If you can handle setting up a server to do
what you need, it's a far better situation since you get charged
only for the box, and not the number of sites held within. If
you ever need to move to a new host, simply shut the VM down and
copy the file to another Host and spin it up there. The beauty
of this is the only thing that would change is your IP number.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri">A programmer I do a lot of work with uses <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.colocrossing.com/">https://www.colocrossing.com/</a>
and their prices are pretty good, starting at $80/mo. Download
and install cPanel yourself and you're off to the races.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri">Mik<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri"><br>
</font></p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">---
Mik Muller, president
Montague WebWorks
239-R Main Street, Greenfield, MA
413-320-5336
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://MontagueWebWorks.com">http://MontagueWebWorks.com</a>
Powered by ROCKETFUSION</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/19/2021 5:59 PM, Rob Laporte via
Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:MN2PR14MB3037C033B489A1C58CDE16E3E5A30@MN2PR14MB3037.namprd14.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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<div style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi All,</div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
For well over 15 years I've repeatedly warned clients that <b>all
web host for small and medium-sized business (sub ~$30/mo) go
bad sooner or later</b>, often by a sell-out. Web hosting is
wrongly perceived as a commodity, so web hosts compete rabidly
on price, eventually requiring either cutting quality to remain
solvent, or selling out to a company that thinks they can ring
profit from the bought host. In my 25 years, damage to the web
hosts' clients
<i>always</i> resulted from the cruel economies of web hosting.<br>
<br>
In my experience, the host with by far the longest stretch being
good was FutureHosting.com (FH), about ~10 years. A few months
ago they suddenly forced all clients to migrate to Nexcess.net,
claiming quality improvement, but it was a sell-out with costly
consequences for all its clients. <b>With almost no warning, we
had to spend time and client budget to ensure that all kinds
of functionality worked, and run the standard SEO tests to be
sure that all SEO value and performance was migrated.</b> The
latter work is a crucial part of migrating to a new web host; a
substantial percent of the work by search marketing firms like
mine is ensuring that such migrations cause no losses. A couple
of the clients' websites got hacked separately from the huge
September web-wide hack that afflicted hundreds of thousands of
WordPress sites. Then, a couple of weeks ago, we learned that
the entire Nexcess web host got hacked, which we discovered when
sleuthing down-time for some of our clients.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I asked a great lawyer I've long known about legal action,
and he felt that the provable financial losses and the
complexity of proof made legal action unlikely to succeed.
However,
<b>I've often wondered how class action suits proceed. If
hundreds or thousands of websites are impacted, the
accumulated losses may be worth the effort by a great class
action law firm.
</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once my firm (<a href="https://www.2disc.com"
title="https://www.2disc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">DISC</a>)
completes migrating our own website from Nexcess (last in
line), I plan to
<b>at least post negative reviews</b> in a few top sites. I
just feel that <b>such feedback is a civic obligation</b>,
even though I don't have time for it now. Likewise, I feel a
civic obligation to leave good reviews, as when the local AAA
did a great job of redressing a big mistake in a towing
delay. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a href="https://www.2disc.com/" title="https://www.2disc.com"
style="margin:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"
moz-do-not-send="true">DISC</a> has long worked with a small
local tech group with great chops (Computer Science degrees,
experience), and they have put together web hosting packages to
which my firm is moving our clients. This Nubbernaut Studios is
currently upgrading their website, but meanwhile their brief
overview may interest some here:
<a href="https://nubbernaut.com/website-services"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://nubbernaut.com/website-services</a>. While
I can’t guarantee their performance, NU is the best option DISC
has found. (Though DISC offers finder’s fees, we never accept
them or any kickbacks from people or firms we recommend, as that
would impugn our objectivity--we just want our clients to
prosper and benefit from the search marketing work we do.) <br>
<br>
<b>Below is a copy of a relevant part of an email I sent to this
list on 12/21:</b><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div
style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;color:black;background-color:rgb(255,
255, 255)">
Below is my original advisory from ~3 years ago, followed
by an excellent, recent 7-minute video by my firm's CEO
Jack Fox and Nubbernaut Studios, explaining the "7 layers"
problem and solutions to one of our clients:</div>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;color:black;background-color:rgb(255,
255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;color:black;background-color:rgb(255,
255, 255)">
<b style="font-weight:normal">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova", sans-serif">The 7 Layers of a Website </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:36pt;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:400;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova", sans-serif">To understand why dedicated
monthly website-tech management is vital, it helps
to glimpse the connected layers beneath content
managers’ typical interactions with a website. I’ll
use WordPress (WP) as an example, but this synopsis
applies variously to all website platforms. </span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">The top layer</span><span
style="margin:0px"> is where you add content. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Beneath that is a layer of
plugins or other<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">third-party
apps and connections</span><span
style="margin:0px">. This and the above layer
often break when crucial WP upgrades are rolled
out a few times per year. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Lower still is<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">the database</span><span
style="margin:0px"> holding not only visible
content in pages and posts, but also user
profiles and passwords, client or customer
logins, and variously secure connections to
layers above and below. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Supporting the above layers
and connecting to the server foundation is a<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">tech
management layer often called cPanel</span><span
style="margin:0px">. It is open source and often
upgraded automatically, and such upgrades can
damage other layers and break automatic back-up
systems. This layer often has entrances left
over from past webmasters’ work, via the likes
of FTP. It also offers admin panels for most
aspects of email management, domain name
associations, and other vital functions of your
website. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Some web hosts offer access
to yet<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">a deeper
layer, often called WHM</span><span
style="margin:0px"> (Web Host Management). My
recent spelunking there shows a byzantine array
of settings often pre-set and sometimes changed
willy-nilly by cheap hosting plans at the likes
of GoDaddy. Options in this setup, like caching
and CDN services, can have major impact on
security, SEO, site speed, and other functions. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Finally, there’s<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">the server
itself</span><span style="margin:0px">, which is
set-up by web hosts (or clients’ in-house IT
people). I’ve never been inside there, and just
peering over the misty edge into that abyss is
terrifying. </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova",
sans-serif;font-weight:400;list-style:decimal;margin-left:36pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px">Another layer that wraps
around all of the above is<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700">the human
layer</span><span style="margin:0px">. People
working in and on the site often unwittingly do
damage, and, given the compounding complexity of
websites, even excellent tech pros can make
mistakes that impair function and SEO
performance. </span></p>
</li>
</ol>
<div style="margin:0px">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova", sans-serif"><br>
</span></span></p>
</div>
</b></div>
<blockquote style="color:rgb(32, 31,
30);font-family:"Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web
(West European)", "Segoe UI",
-apple-system, system-ui, Roboto, "Helvetica
Neue",
sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border-style:none">
<div style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana,
Geneva, sans-serif;color:black">
<b style="font-weight:normal">
<div style="margin:0px">
<p dir="ltr"
style="text-align:justify;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.5"><span
style="margin:0px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:700;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova", sans-serif">Those layers change
over time, and sometimes, like tectonic
plates, they can rupture, causing lots of
screaming and running for help.<span> </span></span><span
style="margin:0px;font-weight:400;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Proxima
Nova", sans-serif">One among many
consequences is declining site speed, and
Google is constantly making speed more of a
ranking factor, never mind the vital role of
speed in conversion rate optimization (CRO).</span></span></p>
</div>
</b></div>
</blockquote>
<div
style="margin:0px;font-size:15px;font-family:"Segoe
UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)",
"Segoe UI", -apple-system, system-ui, Roboto,
"Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;color:rgb(32, 31,
30);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<div style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana,
Geneva, sans-serif;color:black">
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<div style="margin:0px">
<div dir="ltr"
style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif;color:black">
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span
style="margin:0px"></span></p>
<div style="margin:0px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-family:Verdana"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:12px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:13px"><span
style="margin:0px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Verdana,
Geneva, sans-serif"></span></span></span></span></div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.38"><span
style="margin:0px;line-height:normal;font-family:Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif;color:rgb(134, 17,
6);background-color:white"><b>Video:</b></span><span
style="margin:0px;line-height:normal;font-family:Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif;background-color:white"><b> </b></span><span
style="margin:0px;line-height:normal;font-family:Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif;background-color:white"><b><a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quwp7J8PqAo&feature=youtu.be"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
title="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quwp7J8PqAo&feature=youtu.be"
style="margin:0px" moz-do-not-send="true">Jack
and Kevin September Hack and Site Security
Packages for THS</a>. </b></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="Signature">
<div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr"
style="font-size:12pt; color:#000000;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-top:0;
margin-bottom:0"><span id="ms-rterangepaste-start"></span></p>
<div style="font-variant-numeric:normal;
font-variant-east-asian:normal; line-height:normal;
margin:0px">
<span class="font" style="font-family:Verdana"><span
class="size" style="font-size:12px"><span
class="size" style="font-size:13px"><span
class="font"
style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt"></span></span></span></span></div>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255);
line-height:normal">Take Care,</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:10pt; line-height:normal"></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255);
font-weight:700; line-height:normal"><br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:10pt"></span>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(102,102,102);
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); font-weight:700;
line-height:normal">Rob Laporte</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(102,102,102);
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); font-weight:400;
line-height:normal">Chief Business Development Officer
| Founder | Chairman</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt; line-height:normal;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif"></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(102,102,102);
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); font-weight:400;
line-height:normal">DISC - Making Websites Make Money</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<span style="font-size:10pt; line-height:normal;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif"></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;
font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
color:rgb(102,102,102);
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); font-weight:400;
line-height:normal">413-584-6500</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38; margin-top:0pt;
margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:10pt; line-height:normal"><a
href="mailto:rob@2disc.com"
title="mailto:rob@2disc.com" style=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rob@2disc.com</a> |
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/2disc/"
title="https://www.linkedin.com/in/2disc/"
moz-do-not-send="true">
LinkedIn</a> | <a href="https://www.2disc.com"
title="https://www.2disc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">2DISC.com</a></span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="font-weight:bold; line-height:1.38;
margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt">
<br>
</p>
<div style="font-variant-numeric:normal;
font-variant-east-asian:normal; line-height:normal">
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt"></span></div>
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt"></span>
<div><b style="font-family:Verdana; font-size:12px;
font-variant-numeric:normal;
font-variant-east-asian:normal; line-height:normal"><span
class="size" style="font-size:16px"><span
class="font"
style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt; color:rgb(134,17,6)">NOTE:</span></span></b><span
class="size" style="font-size:16px"><span class="font"
style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt; color:rgb(134,17,6)"> Emails can be
blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you
don’t get a reply within an expected span of time,
please call.</span></span><br>
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt"></span></div>
<span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;
font-size:11pt"></span><span id="ms-rterangepaste-end"></span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Hidden-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces@lists.hidden-tech.net"><hidden-discuss-bounces@lists.hidden-tech.net></a> on behalf
of Rich@tnr via Hidden-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"><hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 18, 2021 9:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shel Horowitz <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:shel@principledprofit.com"><shel@principledprofit.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> HT-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"><hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Hidden-tech] Siteground does serious
screwup of web sites</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p>If any of these were my older serious business sites I'd have
move on that.<br>
Although a few are major research projects like Shakerpedia<br>
As is it, I don't think I'm up for the effort or cost of legal
battle<br>
<br>
That said, I do think they totally violated best practices --
all our AWS, google or other services give 3-6 months warning
on such structural changes.<br>
And I do plan on telling them that.<br>
<br>
Clearly time to move past SG.<br>
<br>
Thanks - Stay well all - Rich<br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 1/18/2021 9:31 PM, Shel
Horowitz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">You'll need to find a lawyer who is well-versed
in this particular area. I think you have a claim--but
that's personal opinion--I am not qualified to give legal
advice. Many lawyers will give you a free initial consult,
though--and if they smell a large settlement, working on
spec for a (hefty) percentage of the settlement is pretty
common.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good luck.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had one site hosted with Siteground for one year. I
wasn't unhappy until they tripled the price for the second
year and I left. I have all my sites with Hostgator now.</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Shel Horowitz - "The Transformpreneur"</div>
<div>________________________________________________</div>
<div>Contact me to bake in profitability
while addressing hunger, </div>
<div>poverty, war, and catastrophic climate
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at
4:10 PM Rich@tnr via Hidden-discuss <<a
href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
Just checking anyone else has been totally screwed up by
siteground changes<br>
(and yes, I'm being very polite in my use of words)<br>
<br>
They changed their goGreek hosting so each web site is
it's own unix user id<br>
and blocking any shared logic between sites.<br>
Which would make no difference for simple sites,however<br>
I have some 50 sites on hosting with them and a number of
busy ones use <br>
common logic.<br>
now broken at some unknown level -- it will be hours of
unwinding.<br>
<br>
Of course they did this without prior warning.<br>
Usually a change like this is down after months of
warning.<br>
I am on the verge of calling a lawyer -- working to
determine the damage <br>
first.<br>
<br>
Very likely looking for alternative hosting.<br>
Before retiring this would have all been done on AWS
instances,<br>
however since most of volunteer work I couldn't justify
the expense.<br>
<br>
Suggestions of hosting or how to handle common logic
across domains.<br>
<br>
Stay well - Rich<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Rich Roth<br>
CEO TnR Global<br>
<br>
Bio and personal blog: <a href="http://rizbang.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://rizbang.com</a><br>
Building the really big sites: <a
href="http://www.tnrglobal.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.tnrglobal.com</a><br>
Small/Soho business in the PV: <a
href="http://www.hidden-tech.net" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.hidden-tech.net</a><br>
Places to meet for business: <a
href="http://www.meetmewhere.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.meetmewhere.com</a><br>
And for Arts and relaxation:<br>
<a href="http://TarotMuertos.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://TarotMuertos.com</a>
- Artistic Tarot Deck<br>
<a href="http://www.welovemuseums.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.welovemuseums.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.artonmytv.com/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.artonmytv.com/</a><br>
Helping move the world: <a
href="http://www.earththrives.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.earththrives.com</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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http://www.hidden-tech.net</a><br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">--
Rich Roth
CEO TnR Global
Bio and personal blog: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rizbang.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rizbang.com</a>
Building the really big sites: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tnrglobal.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.tnrglobal.com</a>
Small/Soho business in the PV: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hidden-tech.net" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hidden-tech.net</a>
Places to meet for business: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.meetmewhere.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.meetmewhere.com</a>
And for Arts and relaxation:
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://TarotMuertos.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://TarotMuertos.com</a> - Artistic Tarot Deck
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.welovemuseums.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.welovemuseums.com</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.artonmytv.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.artonmytv.com/</a>
Helping move the world: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.earththrives.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.earththrives.com</a></pre>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hidden-tech.net">http://www.hidden-tech.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net">Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>
You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
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