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    <p>Ok, I think it's time to close this discussion.</p>
    <p>I will close it with my notes:<br>
      <br>
      I think all of us in business for some time get such scams of
      various types, personally I can get a dozen unsolicited offers a
      day, esp<br>
      with the pandemic and PPP loans.  Some are more like these sound
      more legitimate orders,  more so in the IT hardware field, also to
      artists, novices being particularly susceptible -- almost always
      caveat emptor - if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.</p>
    <p>One back twist, I have gotten actually legitimate offers just to
      the wrong company - as I recall it was to a TNR Enterprises that
      sells high end special purpose equipment to Raytheon -- it became
      clear in looking at the TO email the rest of the name matched the
      order except for the domain name.<br>
      It did take them a while to fix given a large corporate ordering
      system.<br>
      The real bogus ones are usually obvious from .ru .jp .cn or
      totally unknown ones.</p>
    <p>Stay Well all<br>
      Rich<br>
      HT Listmaster<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/2020 10:47 PM, Paul Stallman via
      Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKv03GPt4qZfYk7Aqbp=V2Cza=H3EKiky_pO3Rbx68Rhf0nJUg@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">I get hit with this scam almost weekly.  Or a
          variation.  It's either a logo design, or some printing, or
          designing a catalog, or a website for a farming operation. 
          It's all the same, take a credit card and they get you to
          write a check to someone.  It's the same as computer/IT people
          (and I've known multiple) get caught in the scam of ordering
          computers and shipping them to a person/business and the card
          is fraudulent.  That's happened to at least 3 IT businesses
          I've worked with.  
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I also know a guy that sent $5000 to someone from this
            website scam.  Some of them are very convincing.<br>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>For one, I almost never get a new business inquiry
              (real inquiry) via text.  Who would start that way.  "I
              don't know you or know this number I'm texting for your
              business is a cell phone, but I'll try texting to hire
              you."  Every once in a while I get suckered for a little
              bit if the person is good at dragging the con on for a
              while.  Because I never want to answer rudely to a
              possible real new client.  </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Since the scam now is credit card based, I lead a lot
              with "we don't take credit cards". But we do of course,
              but that usually gets them to go away.  Although I had one
              try to convince me to sign up with a company to take
              credit cards, just so I could work with him.  :). That one
              I led on for days and played with.  
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
                      data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div><b>Paul Stallman,</b>  Owner, Creative
                            Director and Web Guru<br>
                            <br>
                            (413) 364-6147 | <a
                              href="mailto:paul@alias-solutions.com"
                              style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paul@alias-solutions.com</a><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div
                              style="font-size:small;text-align:center"><b
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:xx-large"><br>
                              </b></div>
                            <div
                              style="font-size:small;text-align:center"><b
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:xx-large">alias</b><span
                                style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:xx-large">|solutions</span></div>
                            <font size="1" face="trebuchet ms,
                              sans-serif">
                              <div style="text-align:center">GRAPHIC
                                DESIGN | WEB DESIGN | FULL COLOR
                                PRINTING | LARGE FORMAT PRINTING</div>
                            </font>
                            <div
                              style="font-size:small;text-align:center"><a
                                href="http://www.alias-solutions.com/"
                                style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.alias-solutions.com</a><a
                                href="http://www.alias-solutions.com/"
                                style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><br>
                              </a></div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
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                      cellpadding="8" border="0">
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                          <td> <a
href="https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&"
                              class="" style="text-decoration:none"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"> <img
                                src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/mailtrack-signature/sender_notified.gif"
                                alt="Mailtrack" class=""
                                moz-do-not-send="true" width="32"
                                height="32"> </a> </td>
                          <td> <span style="color:#777">Sender notified
                              by</span> <br>
                            <a
href="https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&"
                              class="mt-install" style="color:#4374f7"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">Mailtrack</a> <span
                              style="color:transparent;font-size:0">06/08/20,
                              10:39:55 PM</span> </td>
                          <td> <br>
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                      </tbody>
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        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 7:56
            AM B. Kimo Lee via Hidden-discuss <<a
              href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Hi Lisa,
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>And thanks to you for sharing this, too! I’m not
                sure, but if its a scam it might be that the guy has
                setup a fake Quickbooks site and could be phishing for
                your login info, somewhere down the line. One plus is
                that he hasn’t “yet” asked for a payment to some other
                individual. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I seem to recall that the scam I mentioned below
                involved a 2-day period while the banks process
                transactions during which the scammer can cancel things,
                or somehow get the money and run, or something like
                that. I googled "quickbooks web design scam” and got
                some interesting results.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>You can also send the email to <a
                  href="mailto:spoof@quickbooks.com" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">spoof@quickbooks.com</a> and
                see what they say.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Good to be aware of what scammers are doing. It’s
                such a wild west out there.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Best,</div>
              <div>Kimo</div>
              <div><br>
                <br>
                <div>
                  <div>On Jun 6, 2020, at 9:09 AM, Lisa Rosenthal <<a
                      href="mailto:lrosedesign@comcast.net"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lrosedesign@comcast.net</a>>
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="auto">Hi Kimo,
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Yes I think this was a similar scam, some of
                        the English seemed off as well. The only
                        difference seems to be a payment or over payment
                        through Quickbooks.
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Thanks for sharing your blog post.</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Lisa<br>
                          <br>
                          <div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                            On Jun 6, 2020, at 6:36 AM, B. Kimo Lee <<a
                              href="mailto:bklee@azurelink.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bklee@azurelink.com</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <div dir="ltr">Hi Lisa,
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>A scam I’ve run into is that the
                                scammer offers to overpay you via credit
                                card (stolen) and wants you to send a
                                check to a “project consultant” for the
                                amount of the overpayment. As described
                                by Mik. If you process the cc payment,
                                you become an accomplice. That scam also
                                involved the “client” being “hearing
                                impaired”. Here’s my blog post about
                                it: <a
href="http://azurelink.com/tech-news/item/23-hearing-impaired-buyer-credit-card-scam"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://azurelink.com/tech-news/item/23-hearing-impaired-buyer-credit-card-scam</a></div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Probably not worth your time, but you
                                could set up an account at a freelancer
                                site like Upwork and ask them to assign
                                the job through the Upwork system. That
                                way payment is guaranteed. The mere
                                suggestion of that and they’ll probably
                                disappear. LoL!</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Best,</div>
                              <div>Kimo</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div
style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
                                    <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                      break-word;">AZURELINK  ::
                                       “Creative Design Technologies"</div>
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                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div>
                                  <div>On Jun 5, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Lisa
                                    Rosenthal via Hidden-discuss <<a
href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
                                    wrote:</div>
                                  <br>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                              <div dir="ltr">
                                                <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span></span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">This
                                                    happened to me
                                                    recently, someone
                                                    contacted me through
                                                    my website. They
                                                    were looking for a
                                                    designer for a logo
                                                    and brochure, 8
                                                    pages for a Antiques
                                                    Business in Santa
                                                    Monica. His project
                                                    consultant had all
                                                    the photos and copy.
                                                    I was given specific
                                                    details about the
                                                    project as well as a
                                                    company name and
                                                    address. No website
                                                    or online presence
                                                    yet, it was
                                                    supposedly under
                                                    construction. </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">They
                                                    seemed to have a
                                                    good budget for the
                                                    design part of the
                                                    project. I went back
                                                    and forth a bit
                                                    trying to figure out
                                                    if it was a scam and
                                                    then what the scam
                                                    was. I googled the
                                                    address, it looked
                                                    like Reddit was
                                                    there or had been
                                                    there and it might
                                                    be vacant. I called
                                                    adjoining businesses
                                                    to ask if it looked
                                                    like an Antique
                                                    store was going in
                                                    next door, they both
                                                    said no it didn’t. </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">4
                                                      emails into the
                                                      conversation:</span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The
                                                      guy, Mike Powell:</span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Ok
                                                      I will be making a
                                                      deposit for a
                                                      start so we can
                                                      proceed.Also, I’ll
                                                      like to let you
                                                      now I will be
                                                      paying you via
                                                      Quickbooks by you
                                                      sending me an
                                                      invoice of the
                                                      partial payment so
                                                      I can make payment
                                                      from my ends.Let
                                                      me know if that’s
                                                      ok with you !</span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                                    </span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Me: I
                                                      don’t have a
                                                      Quickbooks account
                                                      so I don’t think
                                                      that payment
                                                      method will work.
                                                      Venmo might be a
                                                      possibility, would
                                                      that work?</span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                                    </span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                                      style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Mike
                                                      Powell: </span><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I’m unable to use my cc via
                                                      PayPal, Square nor
                                                      Venmo due to some
                                                      bad experiences
                                                      I’ve encountered
                                                      using it in recent
                                                      time and I was
                                                      advised by my cc
                                                      provider not to
                                                      use via any of the
                                                      above mentioned
                                                      processors for
                                                      now.</span></div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">   You can look up for
                                                        Quickbooks
                                                        online . It’s
                                                        easy and simple
                                                        to set up.</span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal">..............</div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Has anyone heard of that, a
                                                        scam through
                                                        Quickbooks?</span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                                      </span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I just said I wasn’t
                                                        interested and
                                                        left it at that.</span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                                      </span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Lisa Rosenthal</span></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                                    <div dir="ltr">Sent
                                                      from my iPhone</div>
                                                    <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                      On Jun 5, 2020, at
                                                      10:25 AM, Michael
                                                      Muller via
                                                      Hidden-discuss
                                                      <<a
                                                        href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Hey
                                                          all web people
                                                          on the HT
                                                          list...<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Over
                                                          the years I've
                                                          received an
                                                          innumerable
                                                          number of spam
                                                          emails --
                                                          mostly people
                                                          asking me if I
                                                          need help
                                                          building a
                                                          website for a
                                                          domain I just
                                                          purchased. I
                                                          used to ask
                                                          them if they
                                                          knew what I
                                                          did for a
                                                          living, and of
                                                          course they
                                                          don't. It's
                                                          just a
                                                          robo-script
                                                          emailing
                                                          anyone with a
                                                          email address
                                                          attached to a
                                                          domain name.</font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">On
                                                          occasion I get
                                                          a text from
                                                          someone asking
                                                          if I could
                                                          build them a
                                                          website. The
                                                          exact working
                                                          typically
                                                          never changes,
                                                          and the scam
                                                          is always the
                                                          same. This is
                                                          how they
                                                          usually
                                                          contact me:</font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">"Hello
                                                          how are you
                                                          doing,I will
                                                          like to know
                                                          if you would
                                                          be able to
                                                          handle a
                                                          website design
                                                          for me ?"</font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">The
                                                          punctuation
                                                          and referral
                                                          to "handle a
                                                          website design
                                                          for me" leads
                                                          me to believe
                                                          this isn't
                                                          quite legit.</font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">The
                                                          first time I
                                                          got a text
                                                          like this the
                                                          follow-up was
                                                          that the
                                                          person was
                                                          both deaf and
                                                          blind, so I
                                                          couldn't call
                                                          nor send an
                                                          email. The
                                                          whole thing
                                                          had to be done
                                                          over text.
                                                          Hmmm...<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">They
                                                          want
                                                          specifically 5
                                                          pages, because
                                                          they can't
                                                          afford more,
                                                          and it's
                                                          already been
                                                          designed. All
                                                          I have to do
                                                          is take the
                                                          designed pages
                                                          and put them
                                                          on a web
                                                          server,
                                                          linking the
                                                          pages to each
                                                          other. Seems
                                                          to be quick
                                                          money, right?</font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">The
                                                          kicker is --
                                                          and this is
                                                          where the
                                                          klaxons start
                                                          going off --
                                                          the scammer
                                                          wants to pay
                                                          me $5000 by
                                                          credit card,
                                                          but I have to
                                                          pay their
                                                          designer $3000
                                                          by check,
                                                          since they
                                                          don't take
                                                          credit cards.<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><b><font
                                                          face="Calibri">If
                                                          you are ever
                                                          contacted by
                                                          anyone with a
                                                          similar
                                                          request, just
                                                          say no.</font></b></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">I
                                                          am passing
                                                          this info
                                                          along because
                                                          not only did I
                                                          get such a
                                                          text from this
                                                          guy, but also
                                                          an email
                                                          (below). The
                                                          third screen
                                                          shot has some
                                                          harsh
                                                          expletives, so
                                                          be forewarned.<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Thanks,<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Mik<br>
                                                          </font></p>
                                                        <p><djieiikcpfacbmlb.png> 
<mchjaacgihikpfbf.png>  <oahmococlbdlgcio.png></p>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          --------
                                                          Forwarded
                                                          Message
                                                          --------
                                                          <table
                                                          cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          valign="BASELINE"
nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Subject: </th>
                                                          <td>Re: Web
                                                          designer
                                                          needed</td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          valign="BASELINE"
nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
                                                          <td>Thu, 4 Jun
                                                          2020 14:30:49
                                                          -0700</td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          valign="BASELINE"
nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
                                                          <td>Sarmento
                                                          Alves Domingos
                                                          <a
                                                          href="mailto:sarmentoalves940@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><sarmentoalves940@gmail.com></a></td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          valign="BASELINE"
nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
                                                          <td>Michael
                                                          Muller <a
                                                          href="mailto:tech@montaguewebworks.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><tech@montaguewebworks.com></a></td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Here
                                                          is the job
                                                          details, well
                                                          i have a small
                                                          clothing
                                                          business for
                                                          both male and
                                                          female which i
                                                          run here in
                                                          state,now am
                                                          trying to
                                                          expand the
                                                          business and i
                                                          want you to
                                                          build an
                                                          informational
                                                          website for it
                                                          for
                                                          advertisement
                                                          and to
                                                          increase my
                                                          sales rate..so
                                                          i need you to
                                                          check out this
                                                          site but i
                                                          need something
                                                          more perfect
                                                          than this if
                                                          its possible <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.missrebel.co.uk/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.missrebel.co.uk</a>.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The  site
                                                          would only be
                                                          informational,
                                                          so i need you
                                                          to give me an
                                                          estimate .The
                                                          estimate
                                                          should include
                                                          hosting and i
                                                          want the site
                                                          to have not
                                                          more than 5
                                                          pages ,since
                                                          it is
                                                          informational.
                                                          I have a
                                                          private
                                                          project
                                                          consultant who
                                                          has the text
                                                          content,
                                                          images and the
                                                          logos for the
                                                          site.<br>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:57 AM Michael Muller <<a
href="mailto:tech@montaguewebworks.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">tech@montaguewebworks.com</a>>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Hi
                                                          Sarmento,</font></p>
                                                          <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Can
                                                          you provide
                                                          more
                                                          information?</font></p>
                                                          <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Thanks,</font></p>
                                                          <p><font
                                                          face="Calibri">Mik</font><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <pre cols="72">---
Mik Muller, president
Montague WebWorks
239-R Main Street, Greenfield, MA
413-320-5336
<a href="http://montaguewebworks.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://MontagueWebWorks.com</a>
Powered by ROCKETFUSION</pre>
                                                          <div>On
                                                          6/4/2020 11:41
                                                          AM, Sarmento
                                                          Alves Domingos
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Hello
                                                          how are you
                                                          doing,I will
                                                          like to know
                                                          if you would
                                                          be able to
                                                          handle a
                                                          website design
                                                          for me ?<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite">
                                                      <div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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                                                          href="mailto:Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a></span><br>
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                                                          Tech Web site.</span><br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hidden-tech.net/members</a></span><br>
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        <img class="mailtrack-img" alt="" style="display:flex"
src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/25890fb4f2a77c2b828eb576a45e62e353258261.png?u=1350156"
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Rich Roth
CEO TnR Global

Bio and personal blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rizbang.com">http://rizbang.com</a>
Building the really big sites:      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tnrglobal.com">http://www.tnrglobal.com</a>
Small/Soho business in the PV:        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hidden-tech.net">http://www.hidden-tech.net</a>
Places to meet for business:        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.meetmewhere.com">http://www.meetmewhere.com</a>
And for relaxation:        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.welovemuseums.com">http://www.welovemuseums.com</a>
     <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.artonmytv.com/">http://www.artonmytv.com/</a>
Helping move the world:             <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.earththrives.com">http://www.earththrives.com</a></pre>
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