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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Now that we're throwing
cents around, I don't think it's about one way or the other is
better, I think it's about appropriateness and the situation and
it's really the parents' and the educators' call. Computers and
internet devices are portals to information and socialization in
our culture and our world, the good and the bad. I like your word,
Aaron, "curate" and I would add the word "titrate". Oversee, make
things available as appropriate and as they grow, but keep good
boundaries. Boundaries are love for kids.</font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif"> Unregulated and unsupervised access to the raw
unbridled web too early and too quickly can really mess with
kids, just as with media, but if you never let them explore it
they won't learn and develop skills and calluses, and the "off
limits" effect usually makes it more desirable to explore the
darker stuff.<br>
<br>
To that end, I think starting with a "walled garden" OS like
Chrome OS for young or inexperienced kids is usually a great
idea, then expand as they grow. And there's the support issue,
as Matt says, which would be a huge concern if you're going to
be managing a dozen kid's PC's.<br>
</font><br>
Sam<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<hr size="1">
Sam McClellan<br>
<strong>Itabix, Inc</strong><br>
<i>One place for all things Web</i><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sam@itabix.com">sam@itabix.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://itabix.com">https://itabix.com</a><br>
Main - 413.587.4600<br>
Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249) <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/15/2020 1:28 PM, Aaron E-J via
Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:fa9bf104-4ef1-171a-30d4-2fc295726e22@otherrealm.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I second Stephen's
points, it is important that things are out in the open. Curate
the way your kids learn hard topics, don't prevent them from
learning them.</font><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://otherrealm.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://otherrealm.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://theotherrealm.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://theotherrealm.org</a> (Blog)</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-15 12:43 PM, Stephen
Michel via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1586969034.106145.0@smichel.me">
<div id="geary-body" dir="auto">
<div>
<div><span>To me, these are are downsides:</span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">2. has very good parental
controls, whereas a standard Linux installation like
Ubuntu can always be subverted <br>
3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the
Internet. <br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>Being hard to tinker with makes locked-down
devices a poor choice for encouraging intellectual
curiosity. Open devices teach that if you don't like
your environment, you can work to change it. I think
that's an important life lesson, not just in computers;
among other things, it's important for a functioning
democracy. </span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>This may be more controversial, but I also don't
believe in trying to prevent humans, however small, from
ever engaging with "bad stuff". I don't think technical
barriers are a good substitute for open communication
and trust. Better to talk about these topics, where you
have control over the framing, </span><span>than wait
for children to discover them in a different context.
Now, t</span><span>hese conversation can happen too
soon, so I'm not opposed to weak parental controls. But,
by the time a kid has figured out how to bypass those
controls, they're probably also ready for that
conversation. Finally, figuring out how to bypass the
controls involves a fair amount of learning — an
excellent educational outcome, even if not ideal from
other perspectives.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>So, I'm also in favor of installing a full linux
distro. If these computers will belong to the kids
permanently, I might even suggest providing the older
kids with a small flash drive (4-8GB) and a suggestion
to try out different distributions.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="geary-signature" dir="auto">--<br>
I try to write short, functional emails.</div>
<div id="geary-quote" dir="auto"><br>
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:19, Rich@OTN via Hidden-discuss <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net></a>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Interesting comparison.<br>
Major notes about ChromeOS<br>
1) The publizied download ChromeOS is nothing
specific to Google (regardless of URL) and is heavy
ad-infested.<br>
2) The Neverware version is far newer.</p>
<p>SO the place to get ChromeOS is <a
href="https://archiveos.org/croslinux/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://archiveos.org/croslinux/</a><br>
While actually comes from an archive on sourceforge: <br>
<a
href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/</a></p>
<p>The neverware is not free (since they maintain it) - more
on that as I contact them.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/15/2020 10:27 AM, Sam
McClellan via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4ef44db4-5009-dc74-4488-d15b6d216720@itabix.com">
Hey Rich,<br>
<br>
You probably know a fair amount about Chromium vs Chrome
OS by now, but I've included all the info here for general
consumption.<br>
<br>
Chrome OS is Chromium OS redesigned for Google's
Chromebooks but is also available for PCs. Chrome OS is
designed for end users, whereas Chromium OS is designed
for developers/geeks and requires more knowledge and
maintenance and has less functionality targeted to kids
and regular users. <br>
<a
href="https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq</a><br>
<br>
Chrome OS is a good choice for kids for five reasons - <br>
<br>
1. designed to be simple to set up and maintain <br>
2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard
Linux installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted <br>
3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the
Internet. <br>
4. set up to be used by schools and kids<br>
5. can now also run many Android apps <br>
<br>
The downsides: <br>
1. It's very reliant on an Internet connection and can't
run Linux or Windows apps (although the alternatives can
run Linux apps)<br>
2. If you don't have an actual Chromebook, there are some
limitations although the alternatives can make up for
these.<br>
3. you have to be part of The Google to use it. <br>
<br>
You can download ChromeOS for regular PC's here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download</a>
which just links to<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://getchrome.eu/download.php"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://getchrome.eu/download.php</a><br>
but the first link at least shows you it's actually a
Google download.<br>
<br>
However, most reviews say that Neverware's version of
Chrome OS is the best:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text</a><br>
<br>
Here's a good recent review:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best</a><br>
<br>
Other options for kids:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html</a><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Sam<br>
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<hr> Sam McClellan<br>
<strong>Itabix, Inc</strong><br>
<i>One place for all things Web</i><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:sam@itabix.com" moz-do-not-send="true">sam@itabix.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://itabix.com" moz-do-not-send="true">https://itabix.com</a><br>
Main - 413.587.4600<br>
Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249) <br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/14/2020 8:27 AM,
Rich@tnr via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0dfd74a8-b771-e787-a8c7-e1f8b2b1c468@tnrglobal.com">All,
<br>
I need some suggestions, I'm being asked to process a
batch of Dell laptops for the local school kids. <br>
<br>
SO I need to <br>
(1) Wipe the hard drives <br>
(2) install a chromebook (like) environment so they
can use typical virtual school sw. <br>
<br>
I'd prefer something free or close. <br>
<br>
I found 'Chromium OS' <br>
<br>
Any specific suggestions as to which of each you've had
experience with. <br>
I will collect the suggestions as well as the results
and post on HT web site <br>
This is for the Greenfield school kids, if anyone is
handling other areas, please let me know and I'll make a
list. <br>
<br>
(BTW, which has a set of covid-19 health and business
(CARES act) details. <br>
<br>
Thanks - Happy Tails and Stay healthy. <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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