<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I dunno internships are a thing. <br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature"><div>Garth Shaneyfelt</div><div>Let’s Create a Better World</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Sep 27, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Aaron Taylor-Waldman via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for sharing your experiences, Kimo—and I have to ask, who are you advocating for?<div><br></div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design Contest</blockquote><div></div></div><div><br></div><div><div>I'm not buying it—and I caution all young designers to be careful about 'building your portfolio' claims. It's a red flag.</div><div><br></div><div>An agency, sure they can handle new business expenses—though unpaid pitches are becoming a relic. And the people doing the actual pitch work get paid. But design students?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but occasionally you get a gem.</blockquote><div> </div><div></div></div><div>Professionals, and aspiring professionals, don't provide services with the hope that they will <i>occasionally</i> get a reward. I would never encourage a young design student to build their portfolio by entering contests. Design students build a portfolio in school, or in creating self-directed design projects. As a small design studio, I have never asked any freelancer—including students—to work for free. A for-profit business should pay for design services. </div></div><div><div><br></div><div> My number one advice for designers out there: demand more money. </div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Aaron</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 11:52 AM B. Kimo Lee <<a href="mailto:bklee@azurelink.com">bklee@azurelink.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Greetings HT,<div><br></div><div>Interesting discussion going on. Also following the parallel thread about <i>The Other Job Fair</i>.</div><div><br></div><div>I think there is a place for this type of Graphic Design Contest — design students looking to build a portfolio, or people just starting out with the same goal. I submitted quite a few pieces back when I was in school during the late 70’s and actually “won" several. Good to have printed samples.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course most times, you get what you pay for — but occasionally you get a gem.</div><div><br></div><div>At agencies I’ve worked at, we often would develop creative concepts for campaigns which were technically “on spec” but these were for new business pitches for national clients. If we won the account, it would pay off in a big way. We had a budget allocated for this type of spec work.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy Fall,</div><div>Kimo</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div>
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<br><div><div>On Sep 26, 2019, at 4:15 PM, Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-6799829466758086558Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Aaron,<div><br></div><div>This is a GREAT template to go by!!</div><div><br></div><div>Denise</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 3:56 PM Aaron Taylor-Waldman <<a href="mailto:aaron@taylorwaldman.com" target="_blank">aaron@taylorwaldman.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>The AIGA (American Institute of Graphic Arts) has made their stance clear <a href="https://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work" target="_blank">https://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work</a></div><div></div></div><div><br></div><div>When it comes to work-for-hire, I offer these options for creative services:</div><div><ul><li>Paid work</li><li>Pro bono (or volunteering) — for cause work only, and no more than 20% of my annual work hours.</li><li>Personal projects (The only person who gets 'free' work is me)</li></ul><div>Equity may be an option for some, sure—but 90% of the time you should take the money. Unless you're a cofounder of a company, and/or the equity offer is from a startup with a valuation and funding (not bootstrapping). <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:34 PM Denise Batalha via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Kris,<div><br></div><div>I've always likened the idea of these skills being too easy to be paid their worth as being seen as simple as coloring. What I don't get is if they clearly see these skills as so simplified it requires little to no pay, why don't they just do it themselves? I am, by no means, implying that is the case here. Good/great designers cost money, and I completely understand the overwhelming weight of the costs any organization, or individual lacking the funds, can be.</div><div><br></div><div>Denise</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:05 PM kris badertscher via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">As a media and communications/graphic designer, I found this <i>contest</i> to be incredibly disrespectful to the ever-expanding community of pioneer valley creatives who so often have to go against their better judgement and take work either pro bono (hoping that it leads to paid a gig), for barter, or for slave-wage labor just in order to pay a bill.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">This cultivated western Massachusetts mentality of bargaining for free or underpaid labor predominates in this region where creative workers are consistently being taken advantage of because so few opportunities present themselves. </div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Whether it's photography, video, graphic design, or another skilled creative endeavor, other professionals in the Valley seem to think that these skills require nothing more than just a press of a button. Or maybe they do know and understand that having a subscription to Adobe or Microsoft products or other applications, plus equipment and training in order to make their designs for clients are outrageously expensive and they don't care. Because right, there's always the bounty of students to hire willing to put up with unpaid labor early in their careers. </div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">This mindset hurts all of us. We all then have to accept underpaid labor as an exploited community in order to survive, never mind <i>thrive</i>. What results is that no one outside the creative community gets a sense of what a project <u>actually</u> costs which repeats this unethical cycle. </div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Living in the age of wanting something for (nearly) nothing is doing everyone a disservice and my recommendation is to first research the market and know how much a particular job costs. And please consider the cost- not just of what you are offering in exchange for labor or products, but the cost to all of us who live with the consequences of that mindset. </div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheers, Kris</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a href="http://sustainabilitydesigner.com/" target="_blank">sustainabilitydesigner.com</a></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:36 PM Rich@OTN via Hidden-discuss <<a href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>You do realize that that amounts for barely 4 hours of a
reasonable wage for a graphic artist<br>
and that only goes to the winner -- really doesn't sound in line
with your company name.</p><p>I'd hope to see something more, maybe at least a percent of sales<br>
OR just hire an artist.<br>
</p><p>Think about it.</p>
<div>On 9/20/2019 6:37 AM, Jessica Gifford
via Hidden-discuss wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">Hi All,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">I'm running a design
contest </span>for the back and box of a customized deck of
<i>Connection Cards</i>, which are used in a program that
helps participants get to know new people, build social
connections, and develop friendships. Each card has a question
that participants answer as part of the program. There will be
a <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">$150 prize
for the winning design.</span> You may email <a href="mailto:jessica@growingwellness.life" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">jessica@growingwellness.life</a> for
entry guidelines. Please pass along to anyone who may be
interested.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks!<br>
Jessica<br>
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Jessica Gifford, LICSW<span><span><span><br>
<a href="http://www.growingwellness.life/" target="_blank">www.growingwellness.life</a></span></span></span><br>
413-548-4688</span></span></span></span></span></span>
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