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    <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
          style="font-size:
          12.0pt">Oh, this text is just some very preliminary thoughts.<span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>I agree that 'job fair'
          is not the best name
          for it - if anyone has a better name, I'm all ears.<span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span></span></font></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
          style="font-size:
          12.0pt">I wouldn't use 'holon' in public text without any
          reference.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>The reason
          I used it in this email is because
          I added a link to more information and I really like the
          concept. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>In
          retrospect, also because using one or two
          obscure terms that have a lot of relevance to the topic on
          hand makes people
          more engaged in the topic because not knowing something irks
          you and makes you
          need to find out more (didn't really think about that aspect
          of things at the
          time, but I think it is often the case, at least for the
          literarily inclined).</span></font></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
          style="font-size:
          12.0pt">I totally agree that using negative condonation is not
          productive (hence
          why our government is in total stand still).<span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
          </span>That is actually the whole point of the project – to
          get rid of resentment
          and be more productive.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>It
          is really
          hard to not do it though, and I guess in this context I was
          trying to lay out
          the case that no one is at fault, it is the system that is the
          problem.</span></font></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
          style="font-size:
          12.0pt">I have been a strong proponent of the worker coop
          model for a long time
          and am a River Valley and Common Share food coop member (I
          actually served on
          the board of Common Share Coop a number of years back when it
          was still Amherst
          Community Coop).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span></span></font></p>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://otherrealm.org">http://otherrealm.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://theotherrealm.org">http://theotherrealm.org</a> (Blog)</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-09-27 6:50 AM, Christine Dutton
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN0-QE7v3LC8j5+Ovx4kSROUe5pfMAZLrK4XrUi76==CFF+tKw@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">Interesting proposal! I recommend some language
        adjustments to the proposal. : 
        <div>(a) An alternative term to the term "job fair"</div>
        <div>(b)  An alternative to the term "holon" that is more
          commonly used </div>
        <div>(c) Changes to this language to form more positive
          language: "<span>It can often result in needing to compromise
            your moral principles and spend most of your time doing
            things in areas you are not passionate about. </span><span> </span><span>Constantly
            needing to be judged and being told that you are not as good
            as someone else who got the job you wanted, puts a
            tremendous toll on your wellbeing and desire to interact
            with others.</span><span>  </span><span>On the other side,
            someone looking to hire the right person has to spend a
            considerable amount of time wading through tons of
            applicants before eventually arriving at someone you
            actually want to hire.</span><span>  </span><span>And if you
            have an ounce of empathy, constantly needing to turn people
            down because they are not the right fit feels horrible."</span></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Also, there is a lot of knowledge to gain from talking to
          professionals in the worker cooperative and grocery
          cooperative industries. There is vast amounts of
          knowledge through some organizations and consultants
          associated with these industries. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regards, An HR & Marketing Consultant <br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
              data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>
                  <div dir="ltr"><b>Christine Dutton</b>
                    <div><b>Dutton Consulting </b></div>
                    <div><b>413-626-6377</b></div>
                    <div><b><img moz-do-not-send="true" width="200"
                          height="66"><br>
                      </b></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 7:38
          PM Aaron E-J via Hidden-discuss <<a
            href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
            moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>This
                discussion of the need to work for less than a fair wage
                got me thinking of an idea I had a while back. <span> </span>The
                idea is a kind of 'jobs fair' that would be open to
                anyone, and anyone who attended would be either
                guaranteed a job or funding for a startup.<span>  </span>The
                amount of time that people spend competing for: first a
                college degree, then a job, then maybe funding for a
                business idea, is enormous.<span>  </span>It can often
                result in needing to compromise your moral principles
                and spend most of your time doing things in areas you
                are not passionate about. <span> </span>Constantly
                needing to be judged and being told that you are not as
                good as someone else who got the job you wanted, puts a
                tremendous toll on your wellbeing and desire to interact
                with others.<span>  </span>On the other side, someone
                looking to hire the right person has to spend a
                considerable amount of time wading through tons of
                applicants before eventually arriving at someone you
                actually want to hire.<span>  </span>And if you have an
                ounce of empathy, constantly needing to turn people down
                because they are not the right fit feels horrible.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>The way
                I conceived of the 'job fair' working would be in two
                stages.<span>  </span></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>The
                first stage would be a sign up and stakeholder gathering
                phase. <span> </span>Job seekers would fill out an
                online form detailing their skills and interests and any
                ideas for solutions to unsolved problems they had.<span> 
                </span>Employers (worker coops and businesses that agree
                to not throw their employees under the proverbial bus if
                the job does not work out) would sign up and agree to
                employ people to work <i><span>with</span></i> them and
                not <i><span>for</span></i> them.<span>  </span>Business
                investors and venture capitalists would sign up and work
                on forming business ideas with people who do not see an
                existing role with any of the existing business that are
                hiring.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>Then
                the second stage would be the actual conference where
                everyone gets to know each other and job seekers and job
                fillers seek mutual skills and interests.<span>  </span>The
                people who do not have career goals and skills in line
                with those being sought, and those with business ideas
                they are looking to actualize, would work with the
                business investors and venture capitalists. <span> </span>Together,
                they would form new worker cooperative businesses around
                the solutions previously identified in the first stage
                that everyone on the table can get behind.<span>  </span>These
                cooperatives would act as <a
                  href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holon_(philosophy)"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">holons</a>,
                each independent entities, but with the ability to
                utilize each other's resources to some extent.<span>  </span>There
                would also be a buffer fund established that all the
                cooperatives earning a positive income would contribute
                to and those needing a more income could draw from.<span> 
                </span>The way the investors would get compensated is
                that they would be seen as one of the cooperatives.<span> 
                </span>If the investors want to withdraw some of their
                investment, their financial balance would be negative
                and therefore a proportion of the buffer fund will go to
                them.<span>  </span>This siphoning of money to an
                investor will only continue until a previously agreed
                upon return on investment is achieved or the person
                invests more money back into the system. <span> </span>Because
                the contribution will only be a portion of the <i><span>profit</span></i>,
                if some or all cooperatives are not earning a profit,
                they will not need to contribute to the buffer.<span>  </span>Obviously
                exact details will need to be worked out when more
                people get involved, but that is the general way I am
                envisioning the financing working. <span> </span>It may
                also make sense to involve colleges and others in the
                education sphere.<span>  </span>They could be seen as
                business investors. <span> </span>Although they may not
                be providing financial support, they can still provide
                significant resources and as a result have a share of
                the profit.<span>  </span>However, the exact nature of
                their compensation would need to be figured out because
                education is rarely easily quantifiable.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>The
                important point in all this is that people are not
                competing – there would be the explicit edict that no
                one is left out and no one is forced to do things they
                have no desire to do (of course it may be necessary for
                some people to do undesired tasks, but these tasks
                should be for the purpose of fulfilling desired goals).</span></p>
            <span><span>            </span>What do people think of this
              idea and is anyone interested in working on it with me?<span> 
              </span>I would not be surprised if we could get some grant
              funding to get the ball rolling.</span>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
              </span></p>
            <pre class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-signature" cols="72">Aaron E-J
The Other Realm LLC
<a class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://otherrealm.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://otherrealm.org</a>
<a class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://theotherrealm.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://theotherrealm.org</a> (Blog)</pre>
            <div class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-cite-prefix">On
              2019-09-26 2:30 PM, Deborah Chandler via Hidden-discuss
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default">Ha! Our replies came in at
                  the same time, Todd. Are you still involved with the
                  Graphic Artists Guild?</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default">Deb</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"><br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019
                  at 1:56 PM Todd LeMieux <<a
                    href="mailto:todd@toddlemieux.com" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">todd@toddlemieux.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
                  <div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont">Great
                      replies, and I completely agree. </div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont">I
                      really haven’t seen this in any other industry
                      outside of creative services (designers, web
                      developers, photographers, musicians, etc)
                      “contests” to get essentially free work (and
                      usually underpaid, for the “winner”, if there is
                      any payment involved). It’s just plain wrong.</div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont">Deb,
                      your point is a valid comparison. Imagine having a
                      similar contest for bookkeeping services, or for
                      legal representation? You get the point.</div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont">Sincerely,</div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_customfont">Todd</div>
                    <br>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_5639350802108266734gmail-m_6408156797910086988bloop_sign_1569520201099033856">
                      <p>-------------------</p>
                      <p>Todd M. LeMieux<br>
                        413.237.6869<br>
                        [Graphic Design + Creative Direction]<br>
                        <br>
                        <a href="http://twitter.com/toddmlemieux"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Twitter</a> 
                        |  <a
                          href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddmlemieux/"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LinkedIn</a> 
                        |  <a
                          href="http://www.facebook.com/toddmlemieux"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Facebook</a><br>
                        <br>
                        <a href="https://www.behance.net/toddlemieux"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Good
                          Design Will Prevail.™</a></p>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <p>On September 26, 2019 at 1:43:29 PM, Deborah
                      Chandler via Hidden-discuss (<a
                        href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>)
                      wrote:</p>
                    <blockquote type="cite"><span>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div class="gmail_default"> Hi Jessica,</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> <br>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default">I agree with
                                Rich. If your business is a
                                profit-making business which offers
                                services to help people thrive, then
                                paying for graphic design services are
                                helping a qualified graphic designer to
                                "thrive".</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> <br>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> What you have
                                proposed is called "spec work", where
                                you are only willing to pay for a
                                "winning" design. This spec work is
                                frowned upon in the graphic design
                                industry. Imagine you sit down at a
                                restaurant and you ask them to serve you
                                6 different dishes, you try each one,
                                and only pay for the one you found
                                tasty. You would never do that. Not many
                                professions deal with this issue the way
                                creatives do. And the Graphic Artists
                                Guild, among others, speak up about it,
                                have worked on Pricing and Ethical
                                Guidelines (PEGS) for just these types
                                of issues, and support their members as
                                they adhere to these industry
                                guidelines. </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> <br>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> You may be
                                unaware of this issue, you may have seen
                                other people do contests like this and
                                thought it was okay to do. But please be
                                aware that it is not accepted in our
                                industry, and I for one, kindly request
                                that you choose to hire a qualified
                                graphic designer and negotiate fees that
                                pay them a good rate for their good
                                work. If you are not familiar with this
                                hiring process, how to choose a
                                qualified designer, I am sure there are
                                many folks here who can help you out
                                with that, and some will be willing to
                                quote on your project and provide
                                trusted advice on various aspects of the
                                process through to completion. </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> <br>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> Best on this
                                project,</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"> Deb</div>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">
                              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri,
                                Sep 20, 2019 at 8:27 AM Jessica Gifford
                                via Hidden-discuss <<a
                                  href="mailto:hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>>
                                wrote:<br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <span>Hi All,</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <span>I'm
                                      running a design contest</span>
                                    for the back and box of a customized
                                    deck of <i>Connection Cards</i>,
                                    which are used in a program that
                                    helps participants get to know new
                                    people, build social connections,
                                    and develop friendships. Each card
                                    has a question that participants
                                    answer as part of the program. There
                                    will be a <span>$150 prize for the
                                      winning design.</span> You may
                                    email <a
                                      href="mailto:jessica@growingwellness.life"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">jessica@growingwellness.life</a>
                                    for entry guidelines. Please pass
                                    along to anyone who may be
                                    interested.</p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> Thanks!<br>
                                    Jessica<br>
                                  </p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                  </p>
                                  <br>
                                  --<br>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div>
                                            <div dir="ltr"><span><span><span><span><span><img
moz-do-not-send="true" width="115" height="37"><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </span></span></span></span></span>
                                              <span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span>Jessica
                                                          Gifford, LICSW<span><span><span><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.growingwellness.life" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">www.growingwellness.life</a></span></span></span><br>
                                                          413-548-4688</span></span></span></span></span></span>                                                          </span></span></span><br>
                                                </span></span><br>
                                              <br>
                                              <div><span><br>
                                                </span></div>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
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              <fieldset
                class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
              <pre class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: <a class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hidden-tech.net</a>
<a class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Hidden-discuss@lists.hidden-tech.net</a>

You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
<a class="gmail-m_5639350802108266734moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hidden-tech.net/members" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hidden-tech.net/members</a>
</pre>
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          Members<br>
          page on the Hidden Tech Web site.<br>
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            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.hidden-tech.net/members</a><br>
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