From jonathan at ptco.org  Wed Mar  5 21:01:16 2025
From: jonathan at ptco.org (Jonathan Mirin)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 21:01:16 -0000
Subject: [Hidden-tech] seeking land use or general non-profit attorney
 recommendations
Message-ID: <T4KzT-_6rgbLW9kJYkt1Y4nvhzAF3TkQQK4ZX_JD7dREaRNy4yvcEgS6htQ4NUtR3fZNCH601aYNSP93DXvSHeMbEL2FxES47vl6HgDfnrQ=@ptco.org>

Dear Hidden-Techers,
If anyone has any land use attorney or general non-profit attorney recommendations, thanks for passing them along.
Appreciate it!
Jon

Jonathan Mirin
[Piti Th??tre Company](http://www.ptco.org)
(413) 625 - 6569

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250305/41a638cf/attachment.html>

From rob at 2disc.com  Thu Mar 13 16:57:29 2025
From: rob at 2disc.com (Rob Laporte)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:57:29 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Great Use of LLMs for Insurance Policy Scrutiny;
 Many Hopeful Implications
In-Reply-To: <1954cf6e86f.c759f1721412814.7522636461596271801@2disc.com>
References: <194c79919da.c23c9d1c2501988.6595083042804935942@2disc.com>
 <d35a26c9e5c9c382417e7e87d99c789c@8wheels.org>
 <194d1c68213.dba7d9d7274436.979779353105103713@2disc.com>
 <194dc128d8c.b6ce9c67535855.5599721681637714951@2disc.com>
 <ebc739e7-4343-41a7-b7b8-c47ffac401da@tnrglobal.com>
 <1954cf6e86f.c759f1721412814.7522636461596271801@2disc.com>
Message-ID: <195906f9f86.107509b141067077.1533629383104751425@2disc.com>

Hi All,



I finally got an email from Amica regarding serpentine legalese on home office coverage. The email provided no clarity. In essence it said, yes, the home is fully covered unless any exclusions apply--and obviously it's precisely those exclusions that are in question. They sent the letter via a secure email system they never used prior, one not connected with my client portal. That system shows me no history, only their emails which vanish after 2 weeks, so I video recorded my sending the reply and also posted the reply as a PDF in my portal's document section. Oh what a tangled web insurance companies weave!


Best Regards,



Rob Laporte

CEO? |? R&D Manager

DISC - Making Websites?Make Money
mailto:Rob at 2disc.com,?413-584-6500

https://www.2disc.com



NOTE:?Emails can be blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you don?t get a reply within an expected span of time, please call.








---- On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 09:31:06 -0500 Rob Laporte via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote ---



Hi All,



My nice Amica rep has been proactively apprising me that their underwriting (and probably legal) department is still working on the matter. She re-asked relevant questions regarding my now all remote workers (none in home office) and rare clients here. Those answers are irrelevant to the problematic new generic language of the contract. She said I'll get clarity within a week or so. Fact is, any answer to the legal language problem risks admitting the problem in the first place. We'll see.

Two days ago I discovered in my errant spam folder an email from?Fungai Tichawangana of?https://ArtistDynamix.com asking about using this case in a post?(on his https://Inc413.com?), to which I replied, yes for sure. I suggest others here run their insurance contracts/policies through an LLM, asking for risks. Sharing results here, beyond helping?Fungai's prospective article, will show whether other insurance companies are likewise reducing their risks of payouts.?


BTW, this use of LLMs is an example of emergent business opportunities. Any law firms or insurance specialists could add such legal language critiques to their offerings. Domain pros are needed to vet LLM answers (at least for the next 3-5 years until AI/LLM may exceed all pros' value). A local association guiding LLM use per profession and populated by peer firms could offer a badge of this association that assures clients and prospects that the participating firms are using AI/LLMs to deliver more excellence than average in the nation. That's the idea in my rather back-burnered ALI (Agency LLM Innitiative) and https://www.2disc.com/services/sali/ (Simple Accelerated LLM Integrations). It's a model that various business associations could advance to gain membership and pull in national revenue to a local area.


Best Regards,



Rob Laporte

CEO? |? R&D Manager

DISC - Making Websites?Make Money
mailto:Rob at 2disc.com,?413-584-6500

https://www.2disc.com



NOTE:?Emails can be blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you don?t get a reply within an expected span of time, please call.








---- On Thu, 06 Feb 2025 12:16:59 -0500 Rich at tnr via Hidden-discuss <mailto:hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote ---



Rob, thanks for the ongoing saga - gives one ideas of issues to
      review, and some ways of doing it.
 
 esp with insurance issues related to LA files and who knows what
      Musk is doing in DC except there is LLM in the discussion.
 
 Keep the explorations up - Cheers - Rich

On 2/6/2025 11:24 AM, Rob Laporte via
      Hidden-discuss wrote:

Hi All,
 
 Quick update. Nice rep said home is covered despite the home
          office. What she didn't say is what, apparently, the contract
          states: the coverage is reduced in proportion to the percent
          of home used for business. I used an LLM to unpack the
          legalese, which is full of serpentine references to other
          clauses, and uses language likely to decieve one into
          believing that only home day care work impacts coverage. I had
          ChatGPT write a letter asking for written clarification--forget friendly talk. Meanwhile, Amica
          auto-sent texts thanking me for my approvals, and I did not
          approve it yet, which I explained via Amica's communication
          systems, so there's a clear record. They also charged my bank
          despite my turning on auto-pay only for the car insurance, and
          there too I posted a memo indicating I did not intend this
          payment, again to produce a clear paper trail.?



I'll let you know the final outcome of this saga. I imagine
          similar moves are happening at other insurance companies.?





-- 
Rich Roth
CEO TnR Global

Bio and personal blog: http://rizbang.com
Building the really big sites:      http://www.tnrglobal.com
Small/Soho business in the PV:        http://www.hidden-tech.net
Places to meet for business:        http://www.meetmewhere.com
And for Arts and relaxation:
http://TarotMuertos.com - Artistic Tarot Deck
   http://www.welovemuseums.com
   http://www.artonmytv.com/
Shakers: http://www.shakerpedia.com/
Helping move the world:             http://www.earththrives.com


_______________________________________________
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net 
mailto:Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net 
 
You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list. 
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members 
page on the Hidden Tech Web site. 
http://www.hidden-tech.net/members 







_______________________________________________ 
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net 
Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net 
 
You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list. 
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members 
page on the Hidden Tech Web site. 
http://www.hidden-tech.net/members
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250313/3d228dd2/attachment-0001.html>

From rob at 2disc.com  Fri Mar 21 15:17:40 2025
From: rob at 2disc.com (Rob Laporte)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:17:40 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Great Use of LLMs for Insurance Policy Scrutiny;
 Many Hopeful Implications
In-Reply-To: <195906f9f86.107509b141067077.1533629383104751425@2disc.com>
References: <194c79919da.c23c9d1c2501988.6595083042804935942@2disc.com>
 <d35a26c9e5c9c382417e7e87d99c789c@8wheels.org>
 <194d1c68213.dba7d9d7274436.979779353105103713@2disc.com>
 <194dc128d8c.b6ce9c67535855.5599721681637714951@2disc.com>
 <ebc739e7-4343-41a7-b7b8-c47ffac401da@tnrglobal.com>
 <1954cf6e86f.c759f1721412814.7522636461596271801@2disc.com>
 <195906f9f86.107509b141067077.1533629383104751425@2disc.com>
Message-ID: <195b9471994.ec9fe59767645.7142209709172730538@2disc.com>

Hi All,

Amica and I finally resolved the home office insurance matter. Upshot: A $20/mo rider covers the home fully, but if I hadn't inquired doggedly and pointed out the evasions in Amica's several replies along the way, the actual coverage would be reduced and possibly 100% void.


Since Amica is one of if not the best-reviewed insurance companies out there, you should probably expect your coverage to also be compromised by serpentine contract language. Apt use of an LLM can resolve this. How best to use an LLM for this (or anything) entails no small learning curve. I could help with that, though my firm has no set package for such help in a case like this (does for search marketing). If interested, email me off list.?



Optional read: My Final Email


OK, thank you. Unless you email back otherwise, I assume the clear implication of "There are no exclusions on your current home policy that relates to your business in the home with this endorsement" is that, for example, a fire destroying the entire home would result in compensation identical to a situation where there was no home office. So unless or until you email to the contrary of that implication, this matter is resolved at last. 



For the record, all of our preceding communications also make clear that if I had not inquired and ultimately added the "Permitted Incidental Occupancies - Residence Premises endorsement," then the home office would indeed have constituted an exclusion that would reduce compensation for a fire (for example), that this reduction would likely have been in proportion to the percentage square footage used by the business, but that this reduction may have been 100%. The relevant clauses I pointed to in my prior inquiries support this conclusion. In short, I'm glad I asked!


Best Regards,



Rob Laporte

CEO? |? R&D Manager

DISC - Making Websites?Make Money
mailto:Rob at 2disc.com,?413-584-6500

https://www.2disc.com



NOTE:?Emails can be blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you don?t get a reply within an expected span of time, please call.








---- On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:57:29 -0400 Rob Laporte <rob at 2disc.com> wrote ---



Hi All,



I finally got an email from Amica regarding serpentine legalese on home office coverage. The email provided no clarity. In essence it said, yes, the home is fully covered unless any exclusions apply--and obviously it's precisely those exclusions that are in question. They sent the letter via a secure email system they never used prior, one not connected with my client portal. That system shows me no history, only their emails which vanish after 2 weeks, so I video recorded my sending the reply and also posted the reply as a PDF in my portal's document section. Oh what a tangled web insurance companies weave!



Best Regards,



Rob Laporte

CEO? |? R&D Manager

DISC - Making Websites?Make Money
mailto:Rob at 2disc.com,?413-584-6500

https://www.2disc.com



NOTE:?Emails can be blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you don?t get a reply within an expected span of time, please call.








---- On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 09:31:06 -0500 Rob Laporte via Hidden-discuss <mailto:hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote ---











Hi All,



My nice Amica rep has been proactively apprising me that their underwriting (and probably legal) department is still working on the matter. She re-asked relevant questions regarding my now all remote workers (none in home office) and rare clients here. Those answers are irrelevant to the problematic new generic language of the contract. She said I'll get clarity within a week or so. Fact is, any answer to the legal language problem risks admitting the problem in the first place. We'll see.

Two days ago I discovered in my errant spam folder an email from?Fungai Tichawangana of?https://ArtistDynamix.com asking about using this case in a post?(on his https://Inc413.com?), to which I replied, yes for sure. I suggest others here run their insurance contracts/policies through an LLM, asking for risks. Sharing results here, beyond helping?Fungai's prospective article, will show whether other insurance companies are likewise reducing their risks of payouts.?


BTW, this use of LLMs is an example of emergent business opportunities. Any law firms or insurance specialists could add such legal language critiques to their offerings. Domain pros are needed to vet LLM answers (at least for the next 3-5 years until AI/LLM may exceed all pros' value). A local association guiding LLM use per profession and populated by peer firms could offer a badge of this association that assures clients and prospects that the participating firms are using AI/LLMs to deliver more excellence than average in the nation. That's the idea in my rather back-burnered ALI (Agency LLM Innitiative) and https://www.2disc.com/services/sali/ (Simple Accelerated LLM Integrations). It's a model that various business associations could advance to gain membership and pull in national revenue to a local area.


Best Regards,



Rob Laporte

CEO? |? R&D Manager

DISC - Making Websites?Make Money
mailto:Rob at 2disc.com,?413-584-6500

https://www.2disc.com



NOTE:?Emails can be blocked by spam filters throughout the web. If you don?t get a reply within an expected span of time, please call.








---- On Thu, 06 Feb 2025 12:16:59 -0500 Rich at tnr via Hidden-discuss <mailto:hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote ---



Rob, thanks for the ongoing saga - gives one ideas of issues to
      review, and some ways of doing it.
 
 esp with insurance issues related to LA files and who knows what
      Musk is doing in DC except there is LLM in the discussion.
 
 Keep the explorations up - Cheers - Rich

On 2/6/2025 11:24 AM, Rob Laporte via
      Hidden-discuss wrote:

Hi All,
 
 Quick update. Nice rep said home is covered despite the home
          office. What she didn't say is what, apparently, the contract
          states: the coverage is reduced in proportion to the percent
          of home used for business. I used an LLM to unpack the
          legalese, which is full of serpentine references to other
          clauses, and uses language likely to decieve one into
          believing that only home day care work impacts coverage. I had
          ChatGPT write a letter asking for written clarification--forget friendly talk. Meanwhile, Amica
          auto-sent texts thanking me for my approvals, and I did not
          approve it yet, which I explained via Amica's communication
          systems, so there's a clear record. They also charged my bank
          despite my turning on auto-pay only for the car insurance, and
          there too I posted a memo indicating I did not intend this
          payment, again to produce a clear paper trail.?



I'll let you know the final outcome of this saga. I imagine
          similar moves are happening at other insurance companies.?





-- 
Rich Roth
CEO TnR Global

Bio and personal blog: http://rizbang.com
Building the really big sites:      http://www.tnrglobal.com
Small/Soho business in the PV:        http://www.hidden-tech.net
Places to meet for business:        http://www.meetmewhere.com
And for Arts and relaxation:
http://TarotMuertos.com - Artistic Tarot Deck
   http://www.welovemuseums.com
   http://www.artonmytv.com/
Shakers: http://www.shakerpedia.com/
Helping move the world:             http://www.earththrives.com


_______________________________________________
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net 
mailto:Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net 
 
You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list. 
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members 
page on the Hidden Tech Web site. 
http://www.hidden-tech.net/members 







_______________________________________________ 
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net 
mailto:Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net 
 
You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list. 
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members 
page on the Hidden Tech Web site. 
http://www.hidden-tech.net/members
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250321/26497611/attachment-0001.html>

From andrew at stakeholderscapital.com  Fri Mar 28 11:01:20 2025
From: andrew at stakeholderscapital.com (Andrew Bellak)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 07:01:20 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] seeking land use or general non-profit attorney
 recommendations
In-Reply-To: <T4KzT-_6rgbLW9kJYkt1Y4nvhzAF3TkQQK4ZX_JD7dREaRNy4yvcEgS6htQ4NUtR3fZNCH601aYNSP93DXvSHeMbEL2FxES47vl6HgDfnrQ=@ptco.org>
References: <T4KzT-_6rgbLW9kJYkt1Y4nvhzAF3TkQQK4ZX_JD7dREaRNy4yvcEgS6htQ4NUtR3fZNCH601aYNSP93DXvSHeMbEL2FxES47vl6HgDfnrQ=@ptco.org>
Message-ID: <CAEa_ao09opnh3SuzDTSk4YhyOto4vQohmhD62G+hNWr51ULHDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jonathan,

Can you be more specific about what kind of land use?

Regards,
Andrew

On Thu, Mar 27, 2025 at 10:46?PM Jonathan Mirin via Hidden-discuss <
hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:

> Dear Hidden-Techers,
> If anyone has any land use attorney or general non-profit attorney
> recommendations, thanks for passing them along.
> Appreciate it!
> Jon
>
> Jonathan Mirin
> Piti Th??tre Company <http://www.ptco.org>
> (413) 625 - 6569
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net
> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
>
> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
> page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members
>

-- 


IMPORTANT:??Perigon Wealth Management, LLC?is a
registered investment 
advisor. Information in this message is for the intended
recipient[s] only.?
Perigon Wealth Management, LLC?often communicates
with its clients and 
prospective clients through email and other electronic
means. Your privacy 
and security are very important to us. Perigon Wealth
Management, LLC makes 
every effort to ensure that email communications do not
contain sensitive 
information. If you are not the intended recipient of this
communication, 
please delete and destroy all copies in your possession, notify
the sender 
that you have received this communication in error, and note that
any 
review or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in reliance on,
this communication is expressly prohibited. We remind our clients and 
others
not to send Perigon Wealth Management, LLC private information over 
email. If
you have sensitive data to deliver, we can provide secure means 
for such
delivery. Please note Perigon Wealth Management, LLC does not 
accept trading or
money movement instructions via email. Please visit our 
website?www.perigonwealth.com <http://www.perigonwealth.com/>?for important 
disclosures.



?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250328/0837fcdc/attachment.html>

From valleywood2012 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 28 16:14:52 2025
From: valleywood2012 at gmail.com (AI Zuckerman)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 09:14:52 -0700
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Seeking opinions about Wordpress
Message-ID: <CANtp_XiT61_b4d0R9oOB5sLVAeu_PeqLqTtC2Q+Fjs9RpKP_Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Hidden Techies,

I have a client who is attempting to decide on a tool to build a new
website. Someone recommended Wordpress. I remember lots of people
complaining about this tool.

The client wants to be adding pages and post content. Could someone CALL ME
to discuss this. There could be a little work coming from this conversation.

413-362-4392

thanks!

Amy Zuckerman

Hidden Tech mother emeritus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250328/e7ce8440/attachment.html>

From dstevens at tryandfindit.com  Fri Mar 28 15:06:31 2025
From: dstevens at tryandfindit.com (Donald M Stevens)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 15:06:31 +0000
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Seeking opinions about Wordpress
In-Reply-To: <CANtp_XiT61_b4d0R9oOB5sLVAeu_PeqLqTtC2Q+Fjs9RpKP_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtp_XiT61_b4d0R9oOB5sLVAeu_PeqLqTtC2Q+Fjs9RpKP_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ2PR05MB9633E032B3D28E6FB71F3124B1A02@SJ2PR05MB9633.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Amy,
The good thing about WordPress is that there are allot of videos, self help, consultants out there so finding support is relatively easy. They could look at linda.com that is now owned by LinkedIn, there are classes on there.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net> on behalf of AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2025 12:14:52 PM
To: Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net <Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>; AI Zuckerman <valleywood2012 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Seeking opinions about Wordpress

Hi Hidden Techies,

I have a client who is attempting to decide on a tool to build a new website. Someone recommended Wordpress. I remember lots of people complaining about this tool.

The client wants to be adding pages and post content. Could someone CALL ME to discuss this. There could be a little work coming from this conversation.

413-362-4392

thanks!

Amy Zuckerman

Hidden Tech mother emeritus

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250328/3e714919/attachment.html>

From viet.q.trang at gmail.com  Fri Mar 28 18:16:34 2025
From: viet.q.trang at gmail.com (Viet Trang)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 14:16:34 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Seeking opinions about Wordpress
In-Reply-To: <SJ2PR05MB9633E032B3D28E6FB71F3124B1A02@SJ2PR05MB9633.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANtp_XiT61_b4d0R9oOB5sLVAeu_PeqLqTtC2Q+Fjs9RpKP_Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ2PR05MB9633E032B3D28E6FB71F3124B1A02@SJ2PR05MB9633.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKNCsSzcxxTen-7tCDo_BLEEOYWAQUOUsNXwBo4NE+f4DYT4=g@mail.gmail.com>

Lynda is now LinkedIn Learning <https://www.linkedin.com/learning/>.
TutorialsPoint <https://www.tutorialspoint.com/wordpress/index.htm> is also
a good resource for a beginner WP developer.

WP is still the king of CMS despite any complaints and there are plenty of
no-code options such as WordPress.com <https://wordpress.com/> (from the
makers of WordPress) or BlueHost
<https://www.bluehost.com/wordpress/wordpress-hosting>.

On Fri, Mar 28, 2025 at 11:11?AM Donald M Stevens via Hidden-discuss <
hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:

> Amy,
> The good thing about WordPress is that there are allot of videos, self
> help, consultants out there so finding support is relatively easy. They
> could look at linda.com that is now owned by LinkedIn, there are classes
> on there.
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net> on
> behalf of AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss <
> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 28, 2025 12:14:52 PM
> *To:* Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net <
> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>; AI Zuckerman <
> valleywood2012 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [Hidden-tech] Seeking opinions about Wordpress
>
> Hi Hidden Techies,
>
> I have a client who is attempting to decide on a tool to build a new
> website. Someone recommended Wordpress. I remember lots of people
> complaining about this tool.
>
> The client wants to be adding pages and post content. Could someone CALL
> ME to discuss this. There could be a little work coming from this
> conversation.
>
> 413-362-4392
>
> thanks!
>
> Amy Zuckerman
>
> Hidden Tech mother emeritus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net
> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
>
> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
> page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250328/935bc00e/attachment.html>

From valleywood2012 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 29 05:12:35 2025
From: valleywood2012 at gmail.com (AI Zuckerman)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 22:12:35 -0700
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
Message-ID: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>

https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-
<https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed>
codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
<https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed>
Hi Hidden Techies,Here's one for coders on the list. A friend sent me a
link to this article in Wired. Apparently, DOGE techies are claiming they
can rewrite the SSA code in months. Wire reports that the SSA codebase has over
60 million lines of COBOL
<https://oig.ssa.gov/congressional-testimony/2016-07-14-newsroom-congressional-testimony-july14-ssa-modernization/>
and
handles record keeping for all American workers and payments for all Social
Security recipients. The aim is to migrate all  SSA systems off COBOL ...
and onto a more modern replacement like Java within a scheduled tight
timeframe of a few months," notes Wired.Some questions:Is it possible to
handle this mammoth job in a month?What happens if the techies in DOGE make
mistakes?Would SSA have a backup system of the COBOL code?
Let all of us oldsters who depend on our SSA benefits keep them safe. If
any people can do this, I know either you can or know someone who can.
Please post your thoughts to the list.If you want to chat with me about
this situation then call me at 413-362-4392. thanks!
Amy ZuckermanHIDDEN TECH mother emeritus
I
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250328/4e4f59ce/attachment.html>

From heller at deepsoft.com  Sat Mar 29 23:02:16 2025
From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2025 19:02:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250329230217.3A6284C0813@sharky5.deepsoft.com>

Well, they could just re-compile the COBOL with the GnuCOBOL, which actually 
just translates COBOL to C and then compiles that with the GNUC compiler...

(Of course, from some points of view C is not partitularly "modern", not as 
"modern" as JAVA...)

At Fri, 28 Mar 2025 22:12:35 -0700 AI Zuckerman <valleywood2012 at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-
> <https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium?ed>
> codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium?ed
> <https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium?ed>
> Hi Hidden Techies,Here's one for coders on the list. A friend sent me a
> link to this article in Wired. Apparently, DOGE techies are claiming they
> can rewrite the SSA code in months. Wire reports that the SSA codebase has over
> 60 million lines of COBOL
> <https://oig.ssa.gov/congressional-testimony/2016-07-14-newsroom-congressional-testimony-july14-ssa-modernization/>
> and
> handles record keeping for all American workers and payments for all Social
> Security recipients. The aim is to migrate all  SSA systems off COBOL ...
> and onto a more modern replacement like Java within a scheduled tight
> timeframe of a few months," notes Wired.Some questions:Is it possible to
> handle this mammoth job in a month?What happens if the techies in DOGE make
> mistakes?Would SSA have a backup system of the COBOL code?
> Let all of us oldsters who depend on our SSA benefits keep them safe. If
> any people can do this, I know either you can or know someone who can.
> Please post your thoughts to the list.If you want to chat with me about
> this situation then call me at 413-362-4392. thanks!
> Amy ZuckermanHIDDEN TECH mother emeritus
> I
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net
> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
> 
> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
> page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller at deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                            

From ldwight at spock.city  Sat Mar 29 21:32:10 2025
From: ldwight at spock.city (Lili Dwight)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2025 17:32:10 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <290EB65F-8B3A-40E0-BB14-3AC5EC52AA45@spock.city>

anybody can write crap in a few months- this really requires analysis and design by people who understand all the intricacies and you KNOW they don?t have those people on the job.

As Sam Rayburn said, ?Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one.?

Also, in my experience w/legacy systems, coders used to grab ?unused? bits from a field w/a pointer and separate overlay because we had such limitations on disk and cpu. 

and the number of libraries needed to build modern systems if not done from the ground up introduces stacks of vulnerabilities, too.

So? those of us living on the social security retirement we paid into are?. screwed.


Lili Dwight
??
ldwight at spock.city






> On Mar 29, 2025, at 1:12?AM, AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
> 
> https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa- <https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed>
> codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed <https://developers.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/2148205/doge-to-rewrite-ssa-codebase-in-months?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed>
> 
> Hi Hidden Techies,
> Here's one for coders on the list. A friend sent me a link to this article in Wired. Apparently, DOGE techies are claiming they can rewrite the SSA code in months. Wire reports that the SSA codebase has over 60 million lines of COBOL <https://oig.ssa.gov/congressional-testimony/2016-07-14-newsroom-congressional-testimony-july14-ssa-modernization/> and handles record keeping for all American workers and payments for all Social Security recipients. 
> The aim is to migrate all  SSA systems off COBOL ... and onto a more modern replacement like Java within a scheduled tight timeframe of a few months," notes Wired.
> Some questions:
> Is it possible to handle this mammoth job in a month?
> What happens if the techies in DOGE make mistakes?
> Would SSA have a backup system of the COBOL code?
> 
> Let all of us oldsters who depend on our SSA benefits keep them safe. If any people can do this, I know either you can or know someone who can. Please post your thoughts to the list.
> If you want to chat with me about this situation then call me at 413-362-4392. 
> thanks!
> 
> Amy Zuckerman
> HIDDEN TECH mother emeritus
> 
> I
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net
> Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
> 
> You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
> If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
> page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
> http://www.hidden-tech.net/members

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250329/0c41af7a/attachment-0001.html>

From tek at acm.org  Sat Mar 29 21:43:29 2025
From: tek at acm.org (Tom Kopec)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2025 17:43:29 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>

On 3/29/2025 1:12 AM, AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss wrote:
> Is it possible to handle this mammoth job in a month?

In a word, no.

both my wife AND my daughter have deep experience in implementing and 
converting large systems like this.

Their first question: "Where's the test plan?"

I get the feeling their plan is to crock up some AI to convert everything.

That's going to result in impossible-to-debug bugs.

go-live will be a total cluster.

Just MHO.

...tom
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250329/568f8ad8/attachment.html>

From yudkinyudkin at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 30 00:02:55 2025
From: yudkinyudkin at yahoo.com (Marcia Yudkin)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2025 00:02:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1872056655.1863964.1743292975216@mail.yahoo.com>

So maybe those of us who depend on Social Security should download our earnings records and statements of benefits now so that when things get screwed up, we can travel to the one SSA office left open in New England and wait in line to prove what we are entitled to...






On Saturday, March 29, 2025 at 01:41:11 PM HST, Tom Kopec via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote: 






On 3/29/2025 1:12 AM, AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss wrote:


>??
Is it possible to handle this mammoth job in a month?

In a word, no.

both my wife AND my daughter have deep experience in implementing and converting large systems like this.

Their first question: "Where's the test plan?"

I get the feeling their plan is to crock up some AI to convert everything.

That's going to result in impossible-to-debug bugs.

go-live will be a total cluster.


Just MHO.

...tom


_______________________________________________
Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net
Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net

You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list.
If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members
page on the Hidden Tech Web site.
http://www.hidden-tech.net/members

From alan at 8wheels.org  Sun Mar 30 02:12:17 2025
From: alan at 8wheels.org (Alan Frank)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2025 22:12:17 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1b2bd66c47753d41a6ffcb7c62bda6a3@8wheels.org>

It's a lot easier to test a conversion than something totally new.  You 
can run the same reports on both and confirm you get the same answers.  
This likely means that the testing can be automated.

Automating the coding part of the conversion will be a disaster.  For 
one thing, it will not really be Java.  It will be COBOL with a mask.  
Ever read something translated by someone who wasn't fluent in both 
languages (a menu, for example)?  It will probably end up being less 
maintainable than what you started with.

--Alan

-------- Original Message --------

  		SUBJECT:
  		Re: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?

  		DATE:
  		2025-03-29 17:43

  		FROM:
  		Tom Kopec via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>

  		TO:
  		hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net

On 3/29/2025 1:12 AM, AI Zuckerman via Hidden-discuss wrote:

> Is it possible to handle this mammoth job in a month?

In a word, no.

both my wife AND my daughter have deep experience in implementing and 
converting large systems like this.

Their first question: "Where's the test plan?"

I get the feeling their plan is to crock up some AI to convert 
everything.

That's going to result in impossible-to-debug bugs.

go-live will be a total cluster.

Just MHO.

...tom
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hidden-tech.net/pipermail/hidden-discuss/attachments/20250329/0112e269/attachment.html>

From rich at tnrglobal.com  Sun Mar 30 21:59:25 2025
From: rich at tnrglobal.com (Rich@tnr)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2025 17:59:25 -0400
Subject: [Hidden-tech] Rewriting SSA code in months - possible?
In-Reply-To: <1872056655.1863964.1743292975216@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CANtp_Xg3WBo34V+FbJ-6MVa3bqMNpwjyr26iJ=LLPvpow116RA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d71fe9b-9e83-46cf-aaa4-eb8790e01ea9@acm.org>
 <1872056655.1863964.1743292975216@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <30ce65c3-134c-4571-83a5-160942683f39@tnrglobal.com>

As far as direct response to Amy's question - another off the wall from 
the orange idiot and friends.

Personally, be sure to carry a passport level id (passport card or 
Driver license with REAL ID)

Also, if you get auto payments (EFT) to a checking account, I'd 
recommend moving a chunk
of cash (preferably 3 months expenses) to a new account that is not 
setup to transfer
from that first account.

It's called being safe not paranoid.

Rich

On 3/29/2025 8:02 PM, Marcia Yudkin via Hidden-discuss wrote:
> So maybe those of us who depend on Social Security should download our earnings records and statements of benefits now so that when things get screwed up, we can travel to the one SSA office left open in New England and wait in line to prove what we are entitled to...
>
>
> Is it possible to handle this mammoth job in a month?
>
> In a word, no.
>
>
-- 
Rich Roth
CEO TnR Global