[Hidden-tech] Computer for kids - how to convert

Wed Apr 15 17:05:45 UTC 2020

My $0.02: As someone who has spent the last 30+ years professionally managing technical support, the support costs rise dramatically when there is more “tinkering". Trouble-shooting a problem means the people who are supporting the users need to have extensive knowledge across many distros, OSs, settings, etc. Regardless of what policies are in place, people are going to be looking for support as soon as something goes wrong. As soon as they hear “That’s not supported.” they are going to form negative associations with the support organization, get frustrated, and stop thinking that the laptop is a good learning tool.

If the goal is learning about computers and you expect the users to be self-supporting, that’s one thing. If the goal is learning using a computer, lock it down as much as possible (or have nothing stored locally and the ability to easily wipe and reset).

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Matt Jacobson
matt at jacobson.net <mailto:matt at jacobson.net>
413.475.2799

> On Apr 15, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Stephen Michel via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
> 
> To me, these are are downsides:
> 
>> 2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard Linux installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted 
>> 3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the Internet. 
> 
> 
> Being hard to tinker with makes locked-down devices a poor choice for encouraging intellectual curiosity. Open devices teach that if you don't like your environment, you can work to change it. I think that's an important life lesson, not just in computers; among other things, it's important for a functioning democracy. 
> 
> This may be more controversial, but I also don't believe in trying to prevent humans, however small, from ever engaging with "bad stuff". I don't think technical barriers are a good substitute for open communication and trust. Better to talk about these topics, where you have control over the framing, than wait for children to discover them in a different context. Now, these conversation can happen too soon, so I'm not opposed to weak parental controls. But, by the time a kid has figured out how to bypass those controls, they're probably also ready for that conversation. Finally, figuring out how to bypass the controls involves a fair amount of learning — an excellent educational outcome, even if not ideal from other perspectives.
> 
> So, I'm also in favor of installing a full linux distro. If these computers will belong to the kids permanently, I might even suggest providing the older kids with a small flash drive (4-8GB) and a suggestion to try out different distributions.
> --
> I try to write short, functional emails.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 11:19, Rich at OTN via Hidden-discuss <hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net> wrote:
>> Interesting comparison.
>> Major notes about ChromeOS
>>          1) The publizied download ChromeOS is nothing specific to Google (regardless of URL) and is heavy ad-infested.
>>          2) The Neverware version is far newer.
>> 
>> SO the place to get ChromeOS is https://archiveos.org/croslinux/ <https://archiveos.org/croslinux/>
>> While actually comes from an archive on sourceforge: 
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/ <https://sourceforge.net/projects/archiveos/files/c/cros/>
>> The neverware is not free (since they maintain it) - more on that as I contact them.
>> 
>> On 4/15/2020 10:27 AM, Sam McClellan via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>> Hey Rich,
>>> 
>>> You probably know a fair amount about Chromium vs Chrome OS by now, but I've included all the info here for general consumption.
>>> 
>>> Chrome OS is Chromium OS redesigned for Google's Chromebooks but is also available for PCs. Chrome OS is designed for end users, whereas Chromium OS is designed for developers/geeks and requires more knowledge and maintenance and has less functionality targeted to kids and regular users. 
>>> https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq <https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromium-os-faq>
>>> 
>>> Chrome OS is a good choice for kids for five reasons - 
>>> 
>>> 1. designed to be simple to set up and maintain 
>>> 2. has very good parental controls, whereas a standard Linux installation like Ubuntu can always be subverted 
>>> 3. doesn't allow them free access to programs and the Internet. 
>>> 4. set up to be used by schools and kids
>>> 5. can now also run many Android apps  
>>> 
>>> The downsides: 
>>> 1. It's very reliant on an Internet connection and can't run Linux or Windows apps (although the alternatives can run Linux apps)
>>> 2. If you don't have an actual Chromebook, there are some limitations although the alternatives can make up for these.
>>> 3. you have to be part of The Google to use it. 
>>> 
>>> You can download ChromeOS for regular PC's here:
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download <https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoslinux/download> which just links to
>>> http://getchrome.eu/download.php <http://getchrome.eu/download.php>
>>> but the first link at least shows you it's actually a Google download.
>>> 
>>> However, most reviews say that Neverware's version of Chrome OS is the best:
>>> https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text <https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#intro-text>
>>> 
>>> Here's a good recent review:
>>> https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best <https://www.electromaker.io/blog/article/flint-os-vs-chromium-os-vs-cloudready-which-chrome-os-is-best>
>>> 
>>> Other options for kids:
>>> 
>>> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html <https://www.pcworld.com/article/2030685/make-your-pc-kid-friendly-with-four-custom-operating-systems.html>
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Sam
>>> 
>>> Sam McClellan
>>> Itabix, Inc
>>> One place for all things Web
>>> sam at itabix.com <mailto:sam at itabix.com>
>>> https://itabix.com <https://itabix.com/>
>>> Main - 413.587.4600
>>> Toll-free - 877-7ITABIX (877.748.2249) 
>>> 
>>> On 4/14/2020 8:27 AM, Rich at tnr via Hidden-discuss wrote:
>>>> All, 
>>>> I need some suggestions, I'm being asked to process a batch of Dell laptops for the local school kids. 
>>>> 
>>>> SO I need to 
>>>>     (1) Wipe the hard drives 
>>>>     (2) install a chromebook (like) environment so they can use typical virtual school sw. 
>>>> 
>>>> I'd prefer something free or close. 
>>>> 
>>>> I found 'Chromium OS' 
>>>> 
>>>> Any specific suggestions as to which of each you've had experience with. 
>>>> I will collect the suggestions as well as the results and post on HT web site 
>>>> This is for the Greenfield school kids, if anyone is handling other areas, please let me know and I'll make a list. 
>>>> 
>>>> (BTW, which has a set of covid-19 health and business (CARES act) details. 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks - Happy Tails and Stay healthy. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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