[Hidden-tech] WiredWest fiberoptic broadband
Matthew S. Crocker
matthew at corp.crocker.com
Sun Apr 18 19:48:06 EDT 2010
Charlie,
$50k/mile is a semi-educated guess. I've heard anywhere from $20k - $100k/mile. Distribution networks are more expensive to build as you need more splice points more branches, etc.. Donna Baron @ MBI should have good numbers for a backbone fiber build, she built the Five College Network fiber. I'm sure as your mileage goes up your cost per mile goes down, economies of scale and all. The engineering, fiber and labor costs are pretty well known and can be calculated easily. The only real variable for a build cost is the make ready work needed to get the poles replaced to support the fiber. Another factor is how much of the network is aerial, look at the I-91 project, all underground, new construction. They are 1 year into the build, getting close but not done yet.
Towns should work on picking a central location for the fiber aggregation point. Someplace for the state to build their fiber to. A small 20'x20' concrete building with generator, -48VDC power & HVAC. A carrier/service provider would rent a relay rack to light the fiber to the town and connect to the state middle mile fiber project. Everyone likes to pick on Verizon/Ma Bell but they do know how to build a reliable central office facility, Maybe the town could locate theirs next to the existing Verizon CO.
Towns can also work on getting accurate street information, poles, conduits, houses past, etc. so you can start to build an accurate budget.
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Town Websites" <townwebsites at gmail.com>
> To: "Hidden Tech" <Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:20:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] WiredWest fiberoptic broadband
>
> ** Be sure to fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's
> area.
> ** If you did, we all thank you.
>
>
> Thanks for the info, Matt; I’d pondered several of those variables.
>
> What I see in your figures is a cost difference factor of 3 to achieve
> break even on the capital cost - for commercial, they need the ROI in
> 5 years with loans 6%, total cost $19K monthly; for municipal, returns
> have to cover the capital over 20 (or more - service life of 40
> years?) years at a 4% municipal rate - that without any state or
> federal subsidy - $6K monthly. So the municipalities have a $150K
> annual advantage per town over a commercial last mile project to work
> with.
>
> That suggests it may be possible to build fiber in the hilltowns,
> without relying on property tax revenue except perhaps early in the
> project to cover startup costs.
>
> If there is still a gap to make a regional initiative like this
> achievable, I think it would be reasonable to ask the state to step in
> to provide some further subsidy - covering some startup costs,
> providing loan subsidies or loan insurance, as they would for other
> capital intensive infrastructure like schools and water systems -
> rather than expecting voters in 50 towns to all vote themselves higher
> property taxes to cover the full capital cost for local service which
> many would not see as a benefit for themselves. I think a plan that
> relies on property taxes to cover the capital costs simply can't be
> expected to get more than say 30% to 70% of the towns' votes on
> overrides; meaning it would be far from universal, and the regional
> partnership would be much further from a sustaining critical mass.
>
> Is that $50K per mile figure what you need in a very low density area,
> IE, is the cost per mile lower if you're building out a dead end road
> to service half a dozen homes? And wouldn't you expect more than a
> 20% service rate if you offer a triple play phone, cable TV, internet?
> Towns could simply tell residents that roads will be prioritized for
> deployment based on the pre-subscription rate, building out the areas
> which would be most attractive to cherry picking first, and achieving
> local break-even early in deployment; the profitable installations
> could then help cover the cost of the unprofitable ones.
>
> Charlie Heath
> Town Websites
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net
> [mailto:hidden-discuss-bounces at lists.hidden-tech.net] On Behalf Of
> Matthew S. Crocker
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:43 AM
> To: Will Loving
> Cc: Hidden Tech
> Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] WiredWest fiberoptic broadband
>
> ** Be sure to fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's
> area.
> ** If you did, we all thank you.
>
>
>
> Will,
>
> 802.16 (aka WiMax) operates in the 10Ghz+ range
> 802.16a operates in the 2-11Ghz range.
>
> WiMax is an ethernet framing technology over wireless that supports
> multiple providers sharing the same spectrum. In a point to
> multipoint distribution network you'll probably use 2.4Ghz or 5.7Ghz
> and run into the same power limitations that comes with unlicensed
> wireless. You'll also have the same competition to the spectrum from
> other non-wimax transmitters (cordless phones, baby monitors, alarm
> systems). The higher the frequency the more line of site it becomes.
>
> You can build an unlicensed 2.4Ghz network that will push 100+mbps
> over 50+ miles today with off the shelf equipment. That is a point to
> point scenario with large high gain antennas. That is not something
> you would deploy in a distribution network.
>
> Any IP capable network will handle 'video'. Wireless won't handle
> the video required for a triple play. 1 HDTV channel takes 6.3mbps
> when compressed. With IPTV you multicast all of the channels in your
> backbone (1000 channels = 6.3 Gbps, 1 10GigE ). For distribution of
> the video you use IGMP protocols from the set top box to tell the
> local 'node' switch to send a specific IPTV channel down the drop to
> the house. So, you only need 7mbps per house to handle 1 video
> channel but 10GigE in the backbone.
>
> FTTH is *the* solution for a broadband connected community.
> Everything else is a short term band-aid that will delay the true
> solution (fiber) and is a waste of money (IMHO).
>
> If you figure a town with 20 miles of roads @ $50,000/mile for
> distribution you are looking at $1,000,000 build. $1 Million over 20
> years at 4% is $6k/month. A municipality can get a 20 year bond @ 4%.
> A business cannot. A business would need an ROI in the 3-5 year
> timeframe $1M over 5 years @ 6% = $19k/month.
>
> As a service provider I would need to spend $100k per town + $1k per
> home to bring in the proper electronics to light the fiber. I would
> want 1 strand of fiber per house at an aggregation point in the town.
> I would go straight to ActiveEthernet, 1Gbps, single strand
> bidirectional fibers. Full GigE up and down. At that point you can
> get your video from iTunes, NetFlix, Tivo, Hulu, YouTube, etc. The
> days of broadcast TV are numbered anyway, I'm not sure I would spend
> $1M+ to build an IPTV headend.
>
> State build regional network, town builds local network, home owner
> builds driveway network.
>
> If there were money to be made building fiber in the hill towns it
> would have been done already...
>
> -Matt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Will Loving" <will at dedicationtechnologies.com>
> > To: "Matthew S. Crocker" <matthew at corp.crocker.com>
> > Cc: "Hidden Tech" <Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 1:12:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] WiredWest fiberoptic broadband
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > I'm not sure which wireless protocal you are talking about but my
> > reading of
> > the WiMax specs, both theoretical and reported actual, would seem to
> > indicate that it could support video and much farther spacing of
> > towers - on
> > the order of miles rather than fractions. I know the equipment is
> > still
> > expensive and there are still the issues of terrain and trees, but
> > I've been
> > following it for a few years to see how it develops.
> >
> > Will
> >
> > Will Loving, President
> > Dedication Technologies, Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> > on 4/17/10 7:39 PM, Matthew S. Crocker at matthew at corp.crocker.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ** Be sure to fill out the survey/skills inventory in the
> > member's area.
> > > ** If you did, we all thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "Christopher Eliot" <cre at chriseliot.com>
> > >> To: "Matthew S. Crocker" <matthew at corp.crocker.com>
> > >> Cc: "Town Websites" <townwebsites at gmail.com>,
> > >> hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net
> > >> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:25:07 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] WiredWest fiberoptic broadband
> > >>
> > >> How about:
> > >>>
> > >>> -- State builds a regional fiber network to every town (MBI is
> > >>> working on this)
> > >>> -- Towns build a municipal fiber network to every street (town
> > funds
> > >>
> > >>> via bonding like building a road or bridge)
> > >>
> > >> With a wireless access point every quarter or half mile along the
> > >> street? Would that be enough? Can wireless reach 1/8 or 1/4
> miles?
> > >
> > > Wireless won't support video so you are limited to data & voice.
> > Unlicensed
> > > wireless with point to multipoint won't support much voice, not
> > something I
> > > would sell residential voice over (911 and all, you really want it
> > to work).
> > > 1/8 mile = 660 feet so a wireless transmitter would be less than
> 330
> > feet
> > > away. You may need external antennas on the houses. You would
> also
> > need to
> > > keep track of other unlicensed gear in the area (2.5Ghz cordless
> > phones, baby
> > > monitors, alarm systems, etc.) to limit the interference.
> > >
> > > As a service provider, I'm the one who gets yelled at when things
> > don't work.
> > > A customer doesn't want to hear that their Internet is down
> because
> > the couple
> > > down the street moved the baby monitor to another room and it is
> > now
> > > interfering with the service. unlicensed wireless is a nightmare
> > to debug.
> > > I had a 900Mhz unlicensed wireless network in Springfield that
> went
> > 5+ miles.
> > > I shut it down because of impossible to find interference, stuff
> > would work
> > > great for months then drop for a couple days at random. I donated
> > the radios
> > > to the Connects and they had better luck in the rural areas.
> > >
> > > -Matt
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > William M. Loving
> > Dedication Technologies, Inc.
> > 7 Coach Lane
> > Amherst, MA 01002-3304 USA
> > will at dedicationtechnologies.com
> > Tel: +1 413 253-7223 (GMT 5)
> > Fax: +1 206 202-0476
>
> --
> Matthew S. Crocker
> President
> Crocker Communications, Inc.
> PO BOX 710
> Greenfield, MA 01302-0710
> http://www.crocker.com
> P: 413-746-2760
>
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--
Matthew S. Crocker
President
Crocker Communications, Inc.
PO BOX 710
Greenfield, MA 01302-0710
http://www.crocker.com
P: 413-746-2760
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