As I thought, it is all about money and job security. Both of these get attention by the Feds. Money is obvious. Job security demands that the fed employees work on visable jobs. Getting a small spammer in New England is not high visability. Going after one bale of Grass that fell of a truck on Rt 2 gets much more attention. (I saw that once) After the shoe bomber, checking shoes at the airport gets attention also. No one ever asked if that bomb was going to do anything or not, or if it even worked. Either we get attention by raising heck, or we put some teeth into the law. I read about the tracking and catching companies that violate the 'Do-Not-Call' law. (See Conformity Magazine, www.conformity.com??) The FCC levels strong fines for few violations. Strong here is on order of a million dollars. Once they have had to do it twice for the same business! On the whole, the law does does work because it is expensive to violate, and it is visable for the FCC employees. The FCC also levels fines on order of 100K to those who modify transmitters for use in the CB band, but the fines for those who import uncertified 'wireless' junk for Wal-mart are never high. It is easy to figure out which one of these has been reasonabily controlled. The fine or jail time MUST exceed the cost of doing business. Jim Ussailis Original Message: ----------------- From: Chris Hoogendyk hoogendyk at bio.umass.edu Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:42:30 -0400 To: heller at deepsoft.com, Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net Subject: Re: [Hidden-tech] An Idea about Email ** Be sure to fill out the survey/skills inventory in the member's area. ** If you did, we all thank you. Robert Heller wrote: >> Hi Robert, >> >> I think we need to return to main point. >> >> Regardless of gripes about the manufactures of computer operating systems >> being co-opted and the physical source of the email spam is illegal and >> sending it is now a criminal activity punishable by jail time. It is an >> expense to each one of us and a block to creative endeavors. >> >> Spammers are literally criminals and they can be found because the money >> from the web sites that sell their products or scams has to go someplace. >> Many are truly here in the US even here in our state. >> >> Even if the sources of the spammer's sites are overseas we do have embassies >> and ambassadors. Some foreign countries are also fighting spammers. I am not >> saying that we can solve the entire problem but let us engage the problem >> head on rather than hiding behind the latest real time black lists or >> Antispam service that slows down our computers. >> >> We as citizens have the right to pressure our government at both state and >> federal level to enforce the laws take more action. We can pressure >> politicians. We can show the police them how to track these people down if >> they do not know already. Even now there are significant tools available to >> track these criminals down. >> >> I have had a few people indicate they are interest in such a meeting. I >> would like a sense if you can not attend you allow myself or the other >> hidden tech people to communicate to law enforcement on your behalf. >> >> Please let me know directly or though this forum so I can use the support as >> a lever to force a meeting? >> > > Sure I'll support a meeting. I'm just not sure just how effective it > is going to be. So long as you realize that even if the law > enforcement people and the court system (and in some cases the state > department) do their best and convict *every* spammer with real jail > time (rather than some meaningless fine), spam is not likely to go away > anytime soon or even be reduced in any *measurable* way. I've stayed out of this, but I think some naivete needs to be exposed . . . The local police and authorities have very little to do with this and probably don't have the expertise. I would not presume to know all the legal nuances, but this does get into the same realm as inter-state commerce. The jurisdiction is both federal and international. The FBI is the organization that would deal with it. There have been instances at UMass where the FBI have been involved in forensic analysis of computers. Under the new structures, I believe this falls under the Department of Homeland Security. When it comes to computer security, the NSA gets involved as well, not from the direction of enforcement, but from the direction of technical advice and analysis. If you want to see some of the law enforcement and technical issues from a case study perspective, check out the book Takedown <http://www.takedown.com>. It's a little bit dated, and somewhat egotistical, but quite interesting. More recently, I actually got a paper letter very similar to the typical Nigerian email scams. I did some research and discovered that the U.S. had coordinated with the Nigerian government to interdict huge quantities of such mail (with counterfeit postage stamps), but the scammers then began using adjacent African countries to send mail. The U.S. now has State Department level agreements with several of those countries. Nigeria was anxious to nail the scammers, because according to international postal agreements, the U.S. bills Nigeria for the delivery of mail originating from Nigeria. So the Nigerian government ended up having to pay for the delivery of the scams. If you dig into it a bit, do some reading, follow some of the online security forums, tracking web sites, and security list serves, you will find a lot of people and agencies involved in these efforts. -- --------------- Chris Hoogendyk - O__ ---- Systems Administrator c/ /'_ --- Biology & Geology Departments (*) \(*) -- 140 Morrill Science Center ~~~~~~~~~~ - University of Massachusetts, Amherst <hoogendyk at bio.umass.edu> --------------- Erdös 4 _______________________________________________ Hidden-discuss mailing list - home page: http://www.hidden-tech.net Hidden-discuss at lists.hidden-tech.net You are receiving this because you are on the Hidden-Tech Discussion list. If you would like to change your list preferences, Go to the Members page on the Hidden Tech Web site. http://www.hidden-tech.net/members -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web